great boat design-but??
“but I would expect a $3000 boat to have a working skeg, hatches that do not leak, a cockpit rim that has space to fit a spray skirt, hardware that does not seize after a couple years and gelcoat not covered with spider cracks.- tsunamichuck”
-The skeg in my Romany works great whenever I need it - which is rarely.
-The only hatches worth a damn are Valley hatches, NDK’s are too loose & Kajaksport are too tight (when cold).
-The back of the cockpit rim on my Romany is low, but that does not prevent me from using either my Snapdragon or Seals whitewater skirts comfortably (what else would one use in a “rolling” boat?)
-As far as spidercracks in gelcoat I haven’t noticed any but who makes uncrackable gelcoat? I’ve got a 6yr old 28’ Formula with minor cracking in the gelcoat, is there a finer powerboat made?
No disrespect intended TC, but the Romany is a great boat. All manufacterers have some issues, Q/C or otherwise. I could get into the downsides of Valley, Impex, P&H, Wilderness Sys etc… but I would much rather concern myself with the upside.+
NDK boats have more upside than down in my opinion.+
Again, no offense is intended.
great boat design-but??
And thanks for your previous advice and description of the Pintail. I picked one up a month ago and am finding it as you described; a blast in rough water, waves and large swells; very maneuverable in all conditions so far, and not a slouch until it’s on flatwater (even then I can keep up a decent pace but nothing like my Greenlander). Having lots of fun so far in fall great lakes conditions…
I just ordered a Romany for spring delivery and my cousin just picked up an Avocet. I demoed them both (and others) and preferred the NDK. Both of our first boats.
I went skegless and without footpegs. I’m hoping the lack of a skeg will force me to improve my technique. Plus there’s less hardware to worry about
No offense taken
Like I said, I own a Romany. I have not had to use the skeg. overhauled mine because it was there. I had no problem gooping around the hatches. I got mine used and have been pleased with it. (I traded an Eddyline Raven for it and I am not sure who got the better deal ;+) ) But putting that 8 year old Romany side by side with my 25 year old Nordkapp shows the Nordkapp has a much nicer lay up; no spider cracks and bone dry hatches. Look over at the Nigel Dennis site on Yahoo Groups. Tons of posts on QC issues. The original poster asked for alternatives to a Romany. NDK’s history of piss poor QC is a real indicator for a buyer to beware.
Would like to hear more about the Seda Ikkuma 17
"I'd say a Romany and an Anas Acuta are more similar than a Solstice or an Epic Endurance 18 is to either."
Some significant differences between the AA and the Romany: 1) leg positioning in the AA is very different, 2) hard chine vs "soft" chine, 3) AA has a larger flat area in the hull, 4) (I think) the AA doesn't track as well, 5) the AA has much less primary stability, 6) the AA has an ocean cockpit, 7) and AA not really appropriate for beginners.
I suspect that the degree difference between the AA and the Romany and the Soltice/Epic are close. (Any way, this isn't relevent or helpful either.)
"I agree that there are definite differences among these boats of shared genetics. However there are also similarities."
No one has mentioned -any- practical similarities between the AA and the Romany. There are many practical differences.
"Aled Williams confirmed the use of a mold from Valley (he stated it was a Pintail mold, others have said it was an Anas Acuta mold) as the starting point for the Romany."
The evolution/genesis stuff is interesting historically but it not clear it has any relevance or utility here. It's actually misleading.
"BTW: Many feel humans and chimpanzees are more similar to each other than either is to other mammals"
That was my point: the "similarity" isn't helpful! If a human was asking for a recommendation for some one to marry, presumably, you would not suggest they marry a chimpanzee.
It's OK to recommend the AA but it is misleading to suggest it is "like" the Romany.
While some clearly feel that the Romany and Anas are not similar in any manner worth noting, others find it notable.
It might be informing for someone to realize that the Romany was an attempt to make the Pintail/Anas more user friendly. The Romany is a soft edge hard chine boat with lots of rocker, a rearward set cockpit and relatively flat hull at midship. (My Romany has much harder chines than my friend's original version Pintail.)
I've paddled and surfed my Romany with paddlers in Pintails and Anas Acutas. Most with whom I've spoken feel they are related boats in feel and appearance.
I was not the first in this thread to note the Anas and Pintail. While I would not recommend either an Anas or Pintail to a beginner, some of the best traits of those boats were transferred to the Romany. At least one not great trait also trasferred - lots of drag above 4 knots.
I was not talking conjugal bliss when noting similaritiy.
Romany, AA, Avocet
"The Romany is a soft edge HARD chine boat with lots of rocker, a rearward set cockpit and relatively flat hull at midship."
Yes. Even with these attributes, the Romany feels more like an Avocet than an AA (in my opinion).
"While some clearly feel that the Romany and Anas are not similar in any manner worth noting, others find it notable."
A few people said or implied that the boats were similar. The differences (not mentioned except by me) are very important.
"It might be informing for someone to realize that the Romany was an attempt to make the Pintail/Anas more user friendly."
So, they -are- different.
"I would not recommend either an Anas or Pintail to a beginner"
Another important difference.
"I was not talking conjugal bliss when noting similaritiy."
"Conjugal bliss" would appear to decribe the relationship many kayakers have with their boats (that's why I used the analogy)!
‘similar’ not ’ the same’
I don’t think we are disagreeing on substance but degree or significance.
For clarity: I don’t mean ‘similarity’ to mean ‘the same’ or ‘having no difference.’ By having similarity, I mean sharing some characteristics ‘while not being identical’ (OED).
I had hoped to convey some of that sense, along with the shared ancestory, when I titled my post “Familial Relation.”
My local paddle shop is a Seda dealer, but they didn’t have an Ikkuma as of a couple weeks ago. I’m looking forward to trying one!
I’m curious as to whether or not they can really be built at 40 lbs.
my NEW favorite ad!
Sea Kayak Wanted
Reply to: firstname.lastname@example.org
Date: 2006-10-12, 9:41PM PDT
I’m looking for a used expedition boat for under $1500 (more like $1,000 or $1,200 would be great)…
- fiberglass or carbon/kevlar (no plastic)
- performance boat only, don’t want a rec boat
- something like an NDK Explorer would be perfect, maybe a bit smaller and more maneuverable
Tell your friends and pass my email on to them - and soon, I’m missing all these beautiful autumn days on the water of the San Juans - thanks!
Sean - email@example.com
“carbon/kevler … NDK Explorer … for $1,000 … and soon”
You can never set your sights too high!
What’s wrong with it?
$1500 for a decent used boat doesn’t seem crazy, and I’ve seen good-looking boats offered for less. How about a Foster Legend for $1200?
what’s wrong with it?
Absolutely nothing. The cheaper the better. I’ll take all your old unwanted Explorers & Legends for FREE. And make it snappy. I’m not getting any younger!
The Legend ad I saw was on Seattle
Craigslist. Probably an older boat, but that’s a good price if it’s in decent shape. Go for it!
Sorry you’re stuck in Hawaii : )
Not really. I’m happy for you. I spent the December of 1995 in your neighborhood and loved every minute of it.
I didn’t do any paddling, but went snorkeling three of my four days off work.
i felt that the bow wave on the chatham was more pronounced than the others–more in line with what i experienced in the pintail.
i had a blast in all of them, and if i had the scratch and the space, i would probably own at least two of the three.
i often paddle with guys (and gals) in longer faster boats therefore for me the bit of extra speed was worth it.
I saw that ad
first, I need a Shadow, not a Legend.
More than that, the boat I saw has a mysterious post-market black strip just behind the cockpit. Damage and repair? I don’t want to find out. Plus, he wanted money for it.
"carbon/kevler … NDK Explorer … for
Well, a carbon/Kevlar Explorer used hard could be splinters
While we’re at it…
For those who’ve paddled a lot of 16’ boats, does the Eddlyline Nighthawk 16 belong on the same list as Romany, Avocet, Tempest, Chatham, Viking, etc.?
does the Eddlyline Nighthawk 16 belong
Not in the sense of its design heritage or personality.
However, it is a capable day boat.