Toyota Matrix & before that
A 1998 RAV4. Really enjoyed the RAV4, but for all around versatility and esp. for boathauling I’d give the edge goes to the Matrix:
lower, longer roof line
front passenger seat fold down completely flat
totally washable rear compartment
same compartment has moveable lash points in the floor which used w. the accompanying straps makes it easier to secure heavy or odd-sized stuff.
Um, I CAN open the rear hatch w. my kayak up. I use Yakima Hulley rollers and Mako saddles - maybe with them the kayak sits higher up and out of the way.
I’ve owned five Toyotas so far and keep them for 130K-180K miles. They just go and go w. regular maintenance. And the resale value is MUCH higher (sell them myself) than their American counterparts. IMO their reputation for reliability and better quality is earned even moreso as the car ages.
My 2004 Matrix is the 6 speed manual (XRS) w. the VVTI L+I engine. Plenty of power, trustworthy acceleration and never whines. Redlines around 8500 downshifting is dirty fun. With lots of hwy driving in SE MI I gotta have an engine like that.
Mileage driving solo is better than the EPA estimates. Cruise in 6th at 2900 rpm on the hwy which really saves on gas. Does use premium (93) gas but the savings in mileage more than pays for a couple extra dollars per tank, and it supposedly runs cleaner. Actual mileage tracked over 2.5 years is 28-29 in town and 34-35 hwy. It’ll even do 31-32 w. a kayak on top and stuffed w. camping gear(driving 60 mph in the last case)
I can’t recommend the base or XR models (of either) which have automatic and the standard engine. I testdrove a Matrix XR model w. automatic while I was shopping around. W. and without the A/C the engine lugged merging onto the hwy. The XRS engine was better for my needs, no question. This engine is no longer avail as of the 2009 models and the same is true for the 2009 Vibe. Couple standing offers from car aficionados who want to buy mine if I ever sell it.
Driving 25K per year for work alone means I spend a lot of time seated in that car. The lumbar and thigh support I found to be excellent. Sitting up higher in the seat (like an SUV) also gives me greater field of view while being very easy to get in and out of.
BTW I don’t think the Matrix comes w. factory ready roof rack. The Vibe does. I am wary of most OEM racks for cars and SUVs, foreign or domestic, including the Vibe. They are secured w. some short shaft sheet metal screws. A lot of OEM car racks are mostly for show. (Truck racks are a different stor)
My Matrix" 80% parts from Canada and built in Windsor. 20% Japanese content mainly motor and transmission. I’ve only only two American cars and they were mediocre to bad. While the six imports I’ve owned have been excellent or outstanding. The dealer service from the imports is night and day over the American dealers, too.
I’d like to buy American but each and every time in my adult driverhood that I compared test drive performance, mileage and features the import won out. Wasn’t even close. I wish for many reasons that were not my experience but it is.
Why…
Just want something a little different. The Vue has been great, did everythinng I needed it to do. Carried two kayaks easily.
Tried an Escape XLT today, very nice vehicle, similar in size to the Vue, but more refined than my 6 year old Vue. Smooth engine (V6), lot’s of nice control and entertainment functions. Also has an MPG calculator. Price was good and 0% financing is nice too. Stocks are low in dealerships I found out.
Still got more vehicles to look at.
Andy
Subaru
They are not all bulletproof. My 2001 Legacy Wagon was a lemon. I dumped it at 48k because I could not afford the repairs. The warranty was 24k/2yr and it made it through that with a serious alignment problem which Subaru never fully resolved. We finally figured out it was bad wheels and went away when I put new wheels on it. It was all downhill from there. When I dumped it, the power steering was making noise and the trans was acting up. This was after injector problems, oxygen sensors, alternator, AC compressor, brakes, electronic modules and that’s not including the normal maintenance which was done at the specified intervals. I was 5k into my 3rd set of tires.
Patuxet, that’s about what we got on
our old '97 Outback when cruising without boats. The mileage held up reasonably well with an open canoe, maybe 25, 26 with luck.
Outbacks are so easy on tires that one makes some gas money back from tire savings. Just don’t automatically replace all four tires if you ruin one. I ruined a Michelin X-1 after a year of use, put just one new one on, and never had a problem. All the tires went over 70k, and of course the viscous drive did not fail for the next 100k we drove the car.
a contrary experience
Mine met it's end last year in an accident, after over 200k miles, no major repairs, no dreaded head gasket problem. All airbags functioned and the outback is supposed to be one of the safer cars out there. Biggest repair was a caliper replacement which isn't unexpected at 160k.
Subarus are not hondas but I don't see anyone else claiming so.
If mid size SUVs
are on the menu I’d highly recommend the Jeep Grand Cherokee. It always gets poor to fair marks for reliability, but my experience and that of others I know belies that rating. I’ve put about 300,000 miles on Jeep GCs without any major problems. Two of the three I’ve owned have been almost completely problem free. More so than the two Camrys I’ve owned.
The GC is available in several trim levels, with 6 or 8 cylinder power. Both get about the same MPG with is in the high teens. The factory rack will accept towers from the two major rack mfrs.
Put the yaks on it and drive it on the beach on Sunday. Hose it down and take a client to lunch in it on Monday.
And a big plus for us outdoorsy types- it’s a real SUV. It can go up trails, through mud, and it can drive on the beach. Nothing stops it. It goes where you want to go - no excuses.
That’s great ! I donated our Outback
to Public Radio last December, at about 160k. Engine was fine after a valve job. But AC and radio were out, and we were facing an $1800 clutch job. I loved the car when it worked. Glad somebody had a good experience.
90% of what you wrote is wrong. nm
Just buy a Hummer and don’t look back!
outback reliability?
We sold our 97 Outback to my daughter because she needed a car and we considered it very reliable. I then started reading about head gasket failures and we had a recall on our 02 outback for head gasket issues. Subaru refused to stand behind the 02 Outback to the satisfaction of this consumer- I had bought 4 Subaru vehicles in past years. By contrast, there were issues with the transmission on a Honda van I owned and Honda stood behind the vehicle 100%. I’ll buy another Honda, never again a Subaru. We sold our 02 Outback and my wife bought a 04 CRV (no problems).
I visited my daughter on my 60th birthday and we spent a week hiking. At the literal top of the Rockies the head gasket blew on the “reliable” Outback we sold her. I coasted 8 miles downhill in neutral to get to the first town with a repair shop. Guy there blew us off, so I called a facility in the next town for a tow. After describing our symptoms over the phone, he replied “you have a blown head gasket; I’ve seen over 400 of them”. Subsequent repair proved him correct. A friend who bought a used Outback (01) for his wife also experienced a blown head gasket.
After the head gasket is replaced they seem to be ok- heads must also be machined for the repair to last. Cost is $1500 -$3000 depending on who does the repair and what else has to be replaced.
Subaru claims they fixed the problem in 03. Consumers Reports owners feedback shows continuing “major engine” problems with the 03 and starting to show on some 04 models. Why didn’t Subaru fix the head gaskets between 87 and 03(?), and how can owners trust their assurances now? I don’t!
Dave
…mentioned…
Fuel Efficiency:
__________________
Honda Fit
Toyota Matrix
Subies ?
Ford Flex (*haven't driven but two "+"s = worth a shot)
*Back when I had my 73' Corolla I could do the contortion-thing for half the night.....no way now...;-). The cushions are out there but the skeleton needs the length for comfort.
car
Last year about this time I was involved in a serious accident and totaled my Jeep.
Gas was just north of $4/g, so wifey didn’t want me buying another 15mpg Jeep.
I ended up getting a Nissan Rogue. I tried to buy American – I really did, but the Edmund reports, the internet reports, and buddy’s with American cars did not give glowing recommendations no reliability. And the American car saleman acted like you owed them to buy their car.
The Rogue gets excellent milage, even w/ a yak on top. Stock racks run the length of the roof, and I use a yakima’s for the crossbars.
I will admit, I miss my Jeep. Allot. But not when I visit the gas station.
02 w/ over 200k no HG failure
I was told by my mechanic that this is a very real but also an exaggerated issue. YMMV.
Jetta Wagon TDI for fuel economy
If you can find one the Jetta Sportwagen TDI or Jetta Wagon TDI will give you hybrid-like fuel economy in a car that is great for kayaking and hiking and camping. My only complaint was that it could have used a bit more ground clearance. We put a skid plate on the car for driving on logging roads.
Our Jetta Wagon TDI was totalled last year and we replaced it with an '06 Subaru Forester. We both like that car and in the last 6k miles it has been reliable. It is fun to drive, but the fuel economy sucks. We get around 20mpg around town, 26mpg on the highway (but our car has the turbo engine). The ground clearance is great when driving on dirt roads.
Our VW TDI was reliable (we’ve owned 3 of them, a Golf, Jetta and Jetta Wagon) and much more refined inside than the Subaru.
My dream car would be a 2WD Jetta Wagon TDI with the ground clearance of the Subaru.
Interior space on the Jetta Wagon and Forester is about the same. Rear legroom feels better on the Forester due to the more upright seating position.
alex
No, not really. Too many people like to
parrot what they read, or even select parts of what they read. I have been in the automobile industry for 28 years. My company specializes in cold forming and machining. Honda, Toyota, and Nissan use their kieritzu suppliers from Japan, or require that an American supplier create a joint venture with them. All of the joint ventures that the Japanese OEM’s proposed to us we rejected. The companies that did join them were bought out by the Japanese supplier for pennies on the dollar. Japanese cars made in America are generally made from Japanese parts, which is to say that many of them are made by Japanese owned companies doing business in North America. These North American Japanese suppliers primarily use Japanese steel, Japanese machinery, Japanese tooling, Japanese managers, Japanese engineers, and the money goes back to Japan. The Japanese have done a brilliant job of maintaining control over their automobile industry and retaining most of the control and wealth within the Kieritzu families. Good for them, bad for us. Americans should be this savy and controling, but we are not. Japanese cars utilize a great deal of American labor and we ahould be grateful for this, they could just be importing all of the cars. None of the Japanese OEM’s have done a serious job of supplier localization from American suppliers because of their loyalty to their Japanese Kieritzu partners. Again, good for them. Smart. American cars are made with far more American content where the steel, tooling, and engineering are from the United States. They build these cars in NAFTA and sell them in NAFTA. The real money is in the component supply and not the labor, and this is why the Japanese guard so closely the component supply. Built in America is not necessarily American made, and American made is not necessarily built in America. If you follow the “MONEY”, domestic OEM’s keep the money in the United States, Japanese OEM’s keep it in Japan. Why should anyone expect otherwise. This is why Fritz Henderson said he did not want to have Obama tell people to buy American. It makes GM look like more of a beggar than they already do. Henderson beleives that GM cars can stand on their own two feet when compared with the foreign competition, and by in large he is right. There are too many people willing to bash the US manufacturers without getting informed and testing these vehicles for themselves. Too many old stereotypes of US car manufacturing arrogance and ignorance. It is a new day, and all of us should give the domestic manufacturers a fair shot and then buy the car that you feel is best for you. That is all Fritz was saying in the reference made in a post above. Time to finish building my kayak. Bill
My buddy just bought a Subaru Forester
it gets between 18 and 20 mpg. My GMC Yukon XL Denali with a 6.2 liter V8 gets 21mpg on the highway and 17.9 combined. My Yukon has never been back to the dealer for anything in the last 70,000 miles. I just turned it in off lease and am looking at the Ford Flex. I hear people love their Subaru’s, but that mileage is really kind of a laugh. At least for me:) Maybe it is time the radical environmentalists to start burning Subaru’s. Bill
how do you change that perception?
I agree with your explanation of henderson’s earlier quote. But how do we change this? Whether it’s perception or otherwise (I think it’s a mix of both and other factors), it exists, and currently GM cannot stand head to head with the imports because of this. Ignoring perceptions, even when you don’t believe they’re true, doesn’t make them go away.
you have to use a consistent measure
Comparing what you get in one car to what someone else gets in another car isn't really objective. IF you use the EPA measures, which at least result from consistent conditions, an '08 forester gets 20/26 and a chevy tahoe gets 12/16.
There are reasons that people love subarus. Some of them are irrational and some are logical. The interiors are relatively plain but nicely finished. The awd system is not a 4wd system, it couples with an independent suspension and fits what more people need traction wise. The car handles far better than any truck. Anyone shopping anything that has awd should expect reduced mpg compared to a 2wd car or truck.
70,000 miles is NOTHING
I always get a chuckle out of the fact that some people are still stuck with what they learned about cars in the 1960s, when most of them were pretty-much worn out at 100,000 miles. Your Denali should be good for 400,000 miles with nothing but minor repairs if the new engines are anything like the ones GM was putting in trucks all through the 80s and 90s. It is actually extremely rare for any car to need any significant work done on them in the first 70,000 miles, or the first 150,000, for that matter. That's why it really makes a lot more sense to pay for a car and drive it for its useful life rather than trading them in constantly and making lease or loan payments forever, but that's another topic.
Very good point. I guess for now I can
try to speak up whenever and wherever I can. Maybe someone else will read this and it will influence their thinking which may influence someone else’s. It is a huge problem and like most huge problems it can be repaired one step at a time. The old “how do you eat an Elephant sandwich”…one bite at a time. I pray someone is listening because my future depends on it, or at least a career that I have spent 28 years trying to create. Bill