New lightweight SOT

I just saw in the Epic newsletter that they’re planning on releasing a SOT version of their little recreational kayak. 12’8" x 25 1/4" and about 30 pounds. It’s a little short, but otherwise a lot like what some folks around here have been looking for (and looks like it will have a long waterline for its length).

Might Make a Good Inshore Boat

– Last Updated: Jan-27-04 5:59 PM EST –

The specs suggest it might make a good inshore boat. It would be great to have a boat that weighs only 33#

Now if Mariner made a SOT Coaster which is about that size....

Maybe not just inshore
Hard to tell much from the pictures on their site, but in some ways the hull doesn’t look all that different from the Coaster. Probably too lightweight to go rock-bashing, but I’d sure be interested in paddling it if one found its way over here. I keep telling the Go Bananas guys they ought to stock Epic paddles–maybe I have to find a way to get them together with Barton or Chalupsky after Molokai!

12’ 8" isn’t a little short
It’s a lot short. However the concept works for me. Hopefully, it will be a commercial success and they’ll give the same treatment to their 16’ and 18’ boats too!

Amen to that!

But Think About It…
Not sure this is a really good sign afterall. They make SOT, but base it on their rec. boat? Maybe they do not take SOTs seriously…

…unless it’s a surf ski!
Otherwise - the industry wide thinking seems to be:

SOT = REC (no doubt that’s where the money is - which accounts for the bias).

I would think a composite SOT, being more expensive, would naturally be a bit longer/faster as they’d be designed to target those already paddling and looking to upgrade. Same as with SINKs.

This is not the $mart way to look at the market though. Doing short stubby rec sot in composite may seem a waste to those of us enamoured of speed, but may be a smart business move. Weight, not speed, is the #1 complaint about plastic SOTs.

When I demoed the EPIC 18, I wathced Greg & Oscar invite a rather small and very seasoned female citzen to pick up their shortest model. She grabbed it with one hand and up it came. Her face lit up. A few minutes later she was out paddling it.

My girlfriend’s glass SOT is 13’9" x 23" (only 33lbs) and amazingly fast for it’s lack of length. Sure I leave her behind in my Q700 if I pick up cadence a bit - but that has more to do with my 2000 miles paddled to her 20 miles. Fast as it is, the light weight is what she really likes. She is young and in good shape, but cannot manage either of my boats on land.

I think a good compromise for SOTs would be to use vacuum formed materials like EddyLine’s Carbonlite, with foam blocks at strategic points inside so you don’t have to over build it. If it’s not at least 2/3 the weight of rotomold though - I don’t think it’s light enough to bother doing.

Good Point About Wieght
I guess I forgot about about the wieght issue. I would really love a light boat myself. I could have bought a 33# Barracuda SOT instead of the Revenge, but I didn’t think the layup could not handle all the rocks around here.

I too am waiting for a fast, fun,
lightweight sot, designed with the intentions of being paddled more as a light touring boat, rather than a ski. It would seem something like you’ve decribed above, using carbonlite would be the way to go. I think there’s a much bigger market for this type of boat than they realize, and it is growing as more and more people kayak.

Large Coorporation Market Research
As more big companies like “Johnson Outdoors” buy small companies like Ocean Kayak and Heritage they are not interested in Niche markets like people who want fast light boats or high performance surf boats; their market research says SOT owners want sturdy, stable boats, that’s where the biggest sales are. Maybe you could convince Patrick to come up with an ideal fast SOT Tideline. I don’t think the big companies are going to pay attention.

They do exist
and not all that expensive - you would have to take a leap of faith though.

Take a look at the Kaskazi Pelican - Looks like a decent touring hull. Could be a little longer, but at over 15 1/2’ x just under 25" it’s not bad.

Prices when I asked a year ago were very reasonable (something around $800-900 US for the glass verion, and $2200 for carbon/kevlar) - and shipping rates to US was also a good deal.

I emailed them, because I thought
that was a cool looking boat as well. Didn’t get much of a response. He didn’t want to email me because I had aol???

Hopefully we’ll start seeing more of these around. I have also seen a fair number of used futuras in the various classifieds.

I got a response within a day
with pricing, shipping, etc. But then, I don’t use AOL.

AOL? Really? I guess someone has to.

If he had time maybe, but not until AFTER he gets all his thoughts on a surf ski into a real hull. Then he can go somewhere in betweeen.

Will someone come over and build paddles
for me while I get to this? Ha Ha…

I have had SOT versions of BOTH of my boats ready to go ( in my mind) for several years now. Need to clone myself.

Dear Greyak,

Surfski … In my ‘neighborhood’ I run into no less than three world class yacht designers once in a while on the street or in resturants…and we always give the nod to eachother but have never spoken. I need to bounce some things off these guys…

I will be watching the release of some ‘new’ ski designs this spring, first then play it from there.

Hey, bigger ain’t always better. Be careful who you asociated with. Some things don’t translate well - even when it’s all technically naval engineering!

That Loki kayak was done by a yacht designer - and maybe I’m missing something - but I don’t think it’s got your boats beat.

Not going for the knuckle bow or …
something… just want to bounce a few ideas off them. Not have them draw the boat.

Displacement : length ratios, round vs elliptical and something nagging me about stern squat at speed …stuff like that.

Of course you know
that stern squat is a symptom of speed - not an obstacle, right?

Squat starts at about S/L 1.0 (should be about @ 4.5 kts for a racing ski), etc, etc. John Winters articles are the bomb on the basics of the tech stuff.

Now go design us somthing that can be pushed fast enough to where the total displacmetn returns to normal or starts to lift (S/L 2.2+ ? - around 9 kts for a racing ski - could be less for a very narrow hull (?) - but little work seems to have been done in this area outside of sailing vessels). Here the drag curve becomes a bit less steep again (but still climbing). Everybody looks at hull speed - but for a ski you need to look in the next zone beyond it.

Das wat I’m talkin’ 'bout
Wait, did you just say sailing vessels? Full circle eh? Everything makes waves.

Greyak-the Pelican SOT weighs in at
23kg=60lbs. Doesn’t sound lightweight to me.