Perhaps,
kissing the bow, sitting on the back deck, taking your legs in and out of the kayak, and doing a 360, would be a better indication of balance.
You should have a very good roll, bracing, and edge control for the NordLV. A test paddle in calm water isn’t an indication of skill or balance this kayak requires in certain conditions.
Just about the same here…
I found it a blast in off shore open water and very comfortable. When in the wind driven shallow water short chop it needed constant attention and ceased to be fun and more of an ordeal.
You should have a very good roll…
“You should have a very good roll, bracing, and edge control for the NordLV. A test paddle in calm water isn’t an indication of skill or balance this kayak requires in certain conditions.” -yakwise
Very true. Most of the folk I know who gave up their Nordlows had not demoed the boat in conditions.
Dancing in rough stuff
The LV Nord LV that I tried was on it’s 2nd owner because the original owner danced the boat right into a wet exit in some rough stuff - and she can roll (most of the time). Just couldn’t help responding about the boat “dancing in rough water”. Fortunately there’s plenty of boats for everyone no matter what your skill level or taste is.
no matter what your skill level or taste
Very true.
Sometimes it is preference not skills. In the past, most of the folk I’ve known who gave up paddling their Nordkapps for Explorers were very skilled paddlers. Their choice was not made because the 'kapp exceeded their abilities, rather that its requirements and personality did not suit their wishes or needs at the time.
On a recent UK thread, 2 coaches who paddle Nordkapp LVs for personal pleasure noted that they use their Aquanauts when coaching and/or being responsible for others. Tom Bergh told me years ago that among the reasons he switched from his Nordkapp to an Explorer was because there are times he has to put someone else in his boat. He knows he can put a rattled, or less skilled paddler in an Explorer and have them stay upright. The same is not so true of a Nordkapp.
"After a couple of hours…"
The times my Nordlow has overwhelmed my equanimity has been in long duration conditions that require I am ‘at the top of my game.’ It wears me down. I don’t have the stamina to be good enough to stay happy in the boat when the conditions persist. It goes from being a blast to being a pain.
I’m not a young man nor advanced paddler. I greatly enjoy ny Nordlow sometimes. However, there are times when I am very grateful to be in my Romany or Aquanaut 
Just for the record
The comments about “twitchy” and “dancing” were generic and not intended to be specific to the Nord LV although my questions to Yakwise were.
As to those who like to “control” and those who like to go along with the “dance” its just another example of the old saying. Horses for riders and horses for courses.
Control?
– Last Updated: Sep-25-09 5:44 PM EST –
I'm afraid you lost me on that analogy. Control vs dancing makes it sound like the paddler has a choice. But I don't know if that's even possible. Even if you set a boat on edge in current you still aren't controlling the boat's response to the water, just countering that response with one of your own.
From a Pungo to a racing kayak they all roll around on the water, without any regard for the paddler's preference. The diff is in how they move and how they behave at the point of what tends to be called secondary stability. The staid old Explorer will often hit that point and return to upright without the paddler doing much, while the Nordlow will just keep going 'round.
So if the paddler in the Explorer hits a big wave and doesn't brace, but the boat returns to upright anyway, did they really control anything? I don't think so. They just are in a boat that let them get away with less aggressive paddling.
Staying on top of this is part of the fatigue factor cited about the Nordlow - you can't ignore what is going on. On a long hard trip, or after a day of battling wind, even a very skilled paddler may want to have a soft ride home.
I suppose this characteristic could affect rescues in conditions, but can't speak to that. We haven't had to do any rescues in conditions with the Nordlow as the platform, so lack a basis for comparison.
Among my favorite comments re: Nordkapps
’Gordon (Brown) warns “It will force you to do things the right way”. A boat which automatically punishes sloppy paddling. An on-board coach. With a stick! Actually, that’s just what I need.’
http://simon-willis.blogspot.com/2007/02/dolphin-with-attitude.html
heeling point (secondary stability?)
“The staid old Explorer will often hit that point and return to upright without the paddler doing much, while the Nordlow will just keep going 'round.” -Celia
In simple terms: with a 200lb load it takes 10 lbs of force to capsize an Explorer. With the same load it takes about 2 lbs of force to capsize a Nordkapp LV.
Loose hips help, but good bracing skills are a real asset when paddling a Nordkapp LV
Stability curves
Well you could read the sea kayaker stability curves as saying that the Explorer is designed for a 200 lb paddler and the Nordlow for about a 130 lb one. That would make the curves more or less the same. Then of course it depends on the paddler’s own weight distribution…
I know good kayakers who say that big conditions tire them out in low volume kayaks. That doesn’t mean they or the kayaks can’t handle those conditions, but that it takes more energy. My Aussie kayak is a poly Nordkapp - smaller than the regular volume but larger than the low and who knows which hull shape it is most similar to. I know it will teach me a lot and is a lot of fun in mild conditions. Only time will tell if it is what I want for rougher stuff.
Still I see a lot of designers converging on something more like the Romany or Explorer for an all around kayak for most of the buying public. That being said, I’m glad there is still room for niche markets.
Getting better
As to the trend, if anything, the low volume niche is much less of a niche these days. Lots better variety than a decade ago, where I’d have agreed the manufacturers were converging on a one boat fits all (and smaller people none). More offerings in a greenland style boat too.
I just looked at the curves and from how I read them, it takes fewer foot pounds of force to bring over a Nordlow than an Explorer across the board. I seem to see the Nordlow settling down better for a larger person with a load, which matches our experience with one of our friends who is a big guy. What curve were you looking at, maybe I missed something?
Design Intent
– Last Updated: Sep-26-09 8:57 AM EST –
Valley's site gives (gave) 180 lbs as the ideal load for the Nordkapp LV with (as I recall) about 20 (or 40) lbs above and below as within the most appropriate load. This would be consistent with the contention that it is an expedition kayak for smaller paddlers and a day boat for average size paddlers. As is often the case by smaller Valley means average size women and small men and by average they mean average size guys.
The keel
catches some waves action and is more than 2 lb of force pushing you over into the secondary.
Even someone who is very skilled on an Anas Acuta might not appreciate the readjustment and conditioning the NordLV requires to reach it’s full potential.
Comparison
Curve 1 for the Nordlo is ~ the same as curve 2 for the Explorer so a big person in an Explorer will be about as tippy as a small one in a Nordcapp. More or less true for curves 3 and 4.
One difference is that the maximum on the curves is at a greater degree of heel for the Nordcapp than the Explorer, suggesting that the Nordcapp will tend to come back up when laid over to the point where the Explorer will flip.
But really it’s mostly just mental, um, gymnastics. See how they perform for you and how you like to paddle.
For the same paddler
– Last Updated: Sep-29-09 1:00 AM EST –
each boat will feel very different.
The resistance to heel is what most paddlers feel distinctly. The notably less force required to capsize a Nordlow than an Explorer is what makes the boat feel tender to a paddler.
Of course these stability curves are for the boat not moving forward. All boats firm up when moving forward. The increased feel of stability in the Nordkapp LV is very notable.
Mostly I find the stability curves a fairly good visual representation of the feel of a boat at rest or moving at a slow to moderate pace on flat water.
"…that classic Nordkapp tenderness…"
I was able to test paddle the Nordkapp LV at my new weight of 215 pounds. I’d tried it previously at 170 pounds when the Tidrace kayaks were given a spin out at Trial Island. Both Gordin and I had agreed it was a fine sea kayak though it retained that classic Nordkapp tenderness you either love or hate. I was just able to squeeze into the cockpit and put it through a few manoeuvres. There was a bit of wind and the LV weather cocked far less than the classic Nordy, but it benefited by use of the skeg early.
-http://victoriakayaker.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html
So you are looking at -
– Last Updated: Sep-27-09 9:00 AM EST –
degrees of heel to which the boat will go. I am looking at what wilsoj2 mentions, which is resistance to heel. That's lesser in the Nordlow, even before you account for hull features which may be more or less exposed between the two.
So - if you get caught by a steep wave bouncing back off a rock that starts the boat rolling over on its side, it's more likely that force can overcome the resistance to capsize in the Nordlow than in the Explorer.
Personally, that bears out with my experience. My Explorer has come back to upright from just about sideways when I failed to focus and throw a brace. (thank heavens since I was right next to a rock). In the same scenario, my husband in a Nordlow can't skip the brace.
It'll be interesting to see how the poly Nordkapp compares to this behavior. I don't think the ends are fined out as much as in the Nordlow, so some of this may not apply.
Weight vs. size
So 180 lbs would be me plus my camping load. Bummer, because the time I tried a Nordkapp LV, it was obvious the boat was meant for someone with much longer legs. I had no thigh brace contact. The boat had a nice long glide.
And my Explorer LV, which I can easily edge unloaded, takes way more effort to edge with a full load. OTOH, it was as solid and steady as could be in the storm winds that slammed me a couple weeks ago during its first overnighter.
Dancing in rough stuff
I think it was a nice colorful phrase. I just couldn’t help cracking a smile when I knew the woman who gave it up after the first dance. She actually has a good sense of humor and is a good paddler who is not afraid to get wet or in rough stuff. She was laughing one time yelling “momie” I want my Explorer. I think far too often paddlers take themselves and this sport too seriously.