Without going into the build your own wooden boats out there, what are the boats available with ocean cockpits? I understand that the Outer Island is being offered with an ocean cockpit this year?
Also, Schizopak had a link of a take apart japanese boat only available in Japan that I wanted to see again. (lost the link)
thanks in advance
Paul
a few out there…
The Japanese rolling kayak is the Qanaaqq SS (http://www.qajaqjpn.org/qaanaaq/qaanaaq1.html).
Ocean cockpit boats that you personally don’t have to build would be the Valley Anas Acuta, the Betsie Bay kayaks (modified ocean cockpit), Superior Kayaks, Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk, and the new Outer Island. Also the older Nigel Foster boats had the modified ocean cockpit as well. Oh and you can order a Pintail or the old Nordkapp with an ocean cockpit as well.
Ocean cockpit -
I have a Boreal “Ellesmere” with an ocean cockpit - just fits!
FNG question
What is an ocean cockpit?
What’s FNG?
I Gotta Ask…
What’s the ocean cockpit appeal? I REALLY like being able to get in and out of a longer ‘keyhole’ type. Are they that much dryer?
security…
You feel much more “locked in” in an ocean cockpit boat. It also seems to facilitate rolls and they probably resist implosion better than keyhole cockpits. Yeah they are a pain to get into but it’s worth it once you’re launched and out paddling. I like and have both keyhole and ocean cockpits.
NDK Greenlander
Has an ocean cockpit.
agree with the locked in comment
Having an ocean cockpit does not restrict you to keeping your legs under thigh braces as you can use the entire area to lock yourself in with. Cheri Perry and others (probably schizopak too) put in a piece of foam between their thighs and the deck to lock themselves in even further to keep complete control of the boat when rolling etc.
Concurrently, not as much water gets in if your skirt implodes.
surprisingly, it is just as easy to get out of in a wet exit as any larger cockpit. The pain in the ass comes when you are getting in and out of it by the shore, but I don’t even think about it anymore with my SOF.
Alex, that japanese boat is sweet! But with a 6 foot frame and 200 lbs I would sink it rather quickly. Great concept and looks like incredible workmanship.
Paul
I gotta tell…
in my opinion…in this day of great neoprene sprayskirts and decent cockpit outfitting an ocean cockpit as an ‘excuse’ for better fit and implosion resistance is lame.
I have tumbled in surf many times with a keyhole cockpit and never felt I needed a tiny little, hard to climb-in and outta cockpit.
I had a Greenlander for a while and it was impossible to adjust the footpegs without a claw hammer to reach in and catch the adjustment lever. And w/o a knee tube your legs literally flop around with absolutely nothing to grip.
I believe the difficulty in entrance/ exit the cockpit is justification to NOT desire an OC on my boats. the ONLY reason for me to have one is on a ‘traditional’ Inuit boat.
flame shield UP.
steve
Don’t see whitewater kayaks with tiny
coamings,if anyone was dealing with heinous hydraulics AND the need for exiting a whitewater boat with a keyhole cockpit is the perfect example. Ocean cockpits are a fashion statement. Their utility is like saying a day hatch on a low profile aft deck is for opening in open water where low freeboard makes flooding the day hatch easy. Sorry, no logic to the statement.
effing new guy
heheh
– Last Updated: Mar-12-06 8:45 AM EST –
good points all. I bow to your obvious expertise with the implosion comment. However, the control factor still stands for leg placement and I find that I can do some braces and rolls easier, not to mention less water coming in if you are bracing quickly.
Hey Flatpick..took the tempest 170 rm out this morning. Did about 5 miles with a GP. Nice easy run on a glass flat lake. Still love that boat..wish it had an ocean cockpit though...:) Can you order me one?
BTW..who said anything about whitewater?
I did
one argument for the “ocean cockpit” was the reduced possiblity of the skirt “imploding”. Which is an issue that whitewater keyhole cockpits would have discovered in the first few minutes of use. As a safety and control issue the argument doesn’t hold water since both are primary in whitewater. Which leaves fashion.
lee
While I agree that the implosion factor with the quality of materials out today is valid, I do not agree that the rest of the advantages can be lumped up into a statement of “fashion” The inuit cared about coming home alive. Smaller cockipts were designed over thousands of years as safety and control mechanisms. The fact of the matter still remains that you can place your legs/thighs just about anywhere with an ocean cockpit and are not stuck with having to lock under thigh braces if you are in a position where you are getting sucked out of your boat or you have capsized and weren’t “locked in” at the time.
Of course I am very new to all this so these comments just make sense to me and I have personally experienced it between my sof and my tempest.
Paul
Implosion Is Not Much Of An Issue
– Last Updated: Mar-12-06 9:59 AM EST –
in white water. You don't have big waves exploding on top of you. If you get trashed in a river hole, you don't really get jerked around. Rather, you just go round and round and round. And, in white water there is the pinning and entrapment issue which makes a bigger cockpit desirable. It's a balance. Having said that, I still like my Riot cockpits way more than any of the other brands with the bigger cockpits such as Necky, Perception, etc. I have these boats and use 'em.
Surf environment. Heck yah, I have experienced implosions and have seen others. When you flip on a big curler, the forces at work are much more sudden and greater than on a river drops and holes, at least in my experience with class III runs.
I have a lapbelt in my Mega Venom keyhole cockpit for a reason. From getting sucked out and minimizing implosions. My Wold Epic doesn't have a seat belt yet. The jury is still out for me but here's why. Look at the foam outfitting:
http://www.humboldt1.com/~woldski/webpictures/supernova.gif
I actually took minicell foam and extended that outfitting three inches further back even.
Here's the new Mega oufitting which I am pretty excited about:
http://amadeo.blog.com/repository/152743/620308.p.jpg
Ocean cockpits, or smaller cockpits, may be a "fashion statement" for some of you bigger folks. For me, it's a proven safety feature and eliminates the need for another -- a lap belt.
sing
points noted…
– Last Updated: Mar-12-06 10:51 AM EST –
Yes cockpit outfitting helps a lot and there are plenty of great sprayskirts which negate the implosion differences between an ocean cockpit and a keyhole thus my "probably" statement. Given the same skirt, my feeling is that the keyhole would probably implode before the ocean due to the increased surface area. With that said, I have a Mountain Surf Dur-O-Ring and a Snapdragon reinforced skirt with implosion bar for my keyhole cockpits which I trust completely.
However, a keyhole cockpit still does not facilitate Greenland rolling and paddling as well as an ocean cockpit primarily due to the sitting position. For Greenland style paddling and rolling, we often sit with our legs flat and straight rather than splayed with knees lifted. That sitting position cannot be achieved in a commercial keyhole cockpit without the use of a heavy foam masik and even then, there is a risk of exploding your skirt as part of the masik is pushing out against the sprayskirt.
Not to be a wise arse, but:
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=395079
Enjoy.
Jim
Thank You
Not a wise arse thing at all.
oops
– Last Updated: Mar-12-06 4:41 PM EST –
but even with the other thread..good info all around.
Paul