The Only Reason
to discuss/argue the point, for me, is because I know the manufacturers are reading this stuff and somewhat influenced by the posts.
Hey if the wide butt/big feet folks need more room, that's cool. But not everyone, for better or worse, are built like the average American. ;)
sing
Flame on! :P
Pegs
Pegs are great - for rentals and loaners.
Otherwise WHY would you suffer with a few square inches of contact area that are limited to a specific place in the hull and force your entire lower body into a set position?
There is a chain reaction that starts at the feet and works up. Yes, my feet were FAR more comfy after ditching the pegs, but the place I noticed the difference most was in my lower back - and I’d thought I was pretty comfortable before.
People have learned to live with pegs. Not having tried anything else they don’t realize many of the physical issues that come with their use - until they switch.
Point is, you really cannot imagine how much difference this simple modification makes.
For women (and cross dressers) it may be easier to understand as it’s a lot like the difference between pumps and flats.
Ocean cockpit, padded bulkheads
I find the ocean cockpit easy to get into, harder to get out of, especially since I’m prone to be more fatigued at the end of a paddle than at the begining. Getting in is easy, since gravity helps you as you slide in, but getting out of an OC takes practise,but in all other respects an oc is great. Wet exits and reentry (reenter & roll or t-rescues) are very easy. ; I can easily do a reenter and roll and affix my sprayskirt underwater with an OC, since there’s so little sprayskirt to deal with. I wish more boats came with an Ocean cockpit option.
The big disadvantage I can see is that its very hard to access the farthest front reaches of the cockpit to adjust footpegs, foam out the bulkhead, do any repairs etc. Cutting out and reinstalling a front bulkhead would be extremely difficult.
I have found padded bulkheads in place of footpegs a great boon. They are more comfortable, and if I need to get in and underway quickly (in surf whatever,) it’s great to just slide my feet into a nice clean cockpit and know that they’ll meet that foam wall anywhere in there, and not have to spend time placing them on the footpegs,which can be small target, especially given different footwear (from NRS “slippers” to chota mukluks) , where my (size 10 1/2 -11) shoes often have to wedge into the space dictated by the footpegs. With foam padded bulkheads, stress on the boat is more widely distributed. I have heard about accidents where feet slip off of footpegs in violent surf/waves, and, in extreme cases, punch a hole in the front bulkhead , then with the risk of actually getting caught in there. I have wondered about all of that foot pressure pressure being distributed into two through hull bolts on either side, and could imagine shearing the footpeg racks right off the hull in extreme cases.
You can have both…
On the boat I lend out the most I left the rails attached and keep the pegs in the day hatch. For folks taller than me I have several layers of foam and just remove whatever it takes to fit them.
Why pegs?
WHY would you suffer with a few square inches of contact area that are limited to a specific place in the hull and force your entire lower body into a set position?
To save storage space. Unless the forward bulkhead is positioned at the perfect distance you will always end up with some “wasted” space.
I do not have a huge space between the pegs and the bulkhead but I can still store one bag (tarp and lines) and my shoes on top of it (I like to paddle barefoot).
I guess the “perfect” touring boat will have to be custom ordered 
Squirming in and out of ocean cockpit…
on a dumpy beach is not my cup of tea. If you like it fine, but a quality spraydeck around a good coaming is all it takes.
Bnystrom wrote: “In comparison, there’s ~10”-12" more useable foredeck in front of you with an OC and the deck cords or bungees are much easier to reach. If you need a chart, it’s right in front of you where you can easily read it while paddling."
Many keyhole front decks have three or so deck fittings per side that maintain the bungies and perimeter lines. I removed the perimeter line from the middle fitting so that the chart slides up and down the line, all the way forward or on my spraydeck, as desired.
A few have noted the ability to move your legs all around with OC’s. I don’t have that problem. My legs don’t have to be locked in all the time. edging and correction can be done with flat legs against the hull very easily. How often do you spend long days always bracing with your legs locked in?
Dogmaticus
I Have One For Sale
I have a VCP Skerrey with an ocean cockpit for sale.
Got to make room for more boats, and the Skerrey is not getting used.
1st time disagreeing with you, Sing
I went over Spirit Falls in a Prijon Rockit (back in its day) and my skirt imploded and came off. Due to the lost bouyancy I did not resurface on schedule. The new plan apparently was to recirc and take a heinous little thrashin (haven’t used that descripter lately, thanks LeeG)for a while until I finally was able to part ways with the Rockit and come up 40’ down river to a barage of throw bags. Got a phone call a couple weeks later saying the boat finally got flushed out at low water and I could drive down and get it. It was orange and now looked tiger striped.
Kind of a side bar to the main issue of the post, but I’m still a bit sensitve about it after all these years. Alls well that ends well.
Cheers
Not Really…
my qualification is “in my experience of it…” (the class IIIs I’ve been in around here).
sing
???
“You don’t have big waves exploding on top of you. If you get trashed in a river hole, you don’t really get jerked around”
HUH??? what planet are you from?
steve
me thinks
he was refering ‘the first’ as being Salty agreeing with Flatpick! and no, it’s NOT a first. couple a months ago we decided we were way more alike than different.
I think it’s called ‘soul paddler’.
steve
really
Yep the GLer was in the fleet, it was ‘mildly’ for sale so i really didn;t want to do too much too it. but I did paddle it a bunch and found that w/o something in the knee are, besides the thin stock minicell it was pretty weak in knee/ thigh control, even tho I had boat right up to me belly.
The worst was sliding in/ out on rocky shorelines, a quite common occurance out here. I do have great balance, i just could understand ‘why’??
see ya in kittery? maybe you could show me some outfitting tricks. Oh NO that’s right I have a Tempest…=:-0)
hehe
steve
The Same One As You…
I think…
sing
try this…
http://www.jacksonkayak.com/JKstories/rock-island-waterfall.cfm
Looks like lots of hydraulic potential on the 'ol spray deck.
Dogmaticus
Heck Ya!
When I am ready to take a class V plus drop, I'll let you all know. BTW, let me know or take a vid when y'all feel like you ready for that too. ;)
My point was that I PERSONALLY haven't experienced the same forces on the class III runs that I have been in vs the surfing I have been doing.
I PERSONALLY prefer smaller cockpits than bigger ones. I believe I am safer in a smaller cockpit. I would like a smaller cockpit in a the river environment but recognize the need to balance suck out vs. pinning (having experienced that briefly too). I have NO pinning issues in the surf. Just implosion and suck out issues.
I PERSONALLY don't think I do smaller cockpits to make a "fashion statement." My only fashion statement is my pink helmet. :)
Can I be any clearer? It would probably be easier just to admit that, yes indeed, I am a closet paddling fashion maven. :)
sing
and all I wanted
was a simple listing of commercially available kayaks with ocean cockpits…
Paul
here’s a partial list
P&H:
Orion (special order boat)
Valley:
Nordkapp, pintail, anas acuta, and i believe it’s an option on the q-boat
NDK:
Greenlander
Impex:
Outer Island
Boreal Design:
Ellesemere
Betsey Bay:
The whole line.
Skim (if you can find a dealer, tell me):
Dex
Plus the wood kits can all be made into OCs.
Who’d I miss?
Valley Skerray
Irishmanng’s got one with OC.
Cool
You’ve got the flame shield up…
well then
I love Ocean cockpits (only acceptiable if it’s a guys boat, the woman must have a differant name for it , but they won’t tell me)
for Rolling and general fun
I love Key hole cockpits (see above for disclaimer of other terms for this)
for flying beach landings, complete with the grap and drag at a run tactic
for landings onto shelf rocks above the water line, where stepping up out of the boat is a good idea.
stepping off anything high, into the boat
Getting into a boat from a beach, it really doesnt matter which you have unless you want to wade way out to get in and it’s calm, then a keyhole is nice. seal launches, they both work…I don’t like to limit myself too much, and getting into a boat with an ocean cockpit is a nice skill to have soooooo…I own some of each
I also never use a paddle behind the cockpit touching land, too get in a boat…bad Idea to even practice this rediculous method…it only works with no surf , in calm conditions, where you really don’t need anything anyways…
now I too am putting up my flame sheild…
Best Wishes
Roy
I’d love to have your Skerray…
… as it’s a great rough water/teaching boat, but money is a bit tight right now. If it’s still available when I have the cash, I’ll take if off your hands.