The situation is that boats that really fit us are a very small market niche so not many made or purchased. And dealers can be reluctant to add them to a demo fleet.
Add to this that a lot of really nice
candidates like the Avocet LV, Necky Eliza (glass), P&H Scorpio LV, CD Willow,Impex Force Cat3,or the CD Suka are very recent designs so not many available used. For these, keep an eye out for demo boats that are 2 model years old. The shops are often eager to sell them at the end of the season or just into the next one.
The Mystic has been out there awhile, as has the Vela, and Romanys are such a popular longstanding design they show up frequently too.
Come to think of it, there are a good number of Impex Montauks around. They are very similiar to the North Shore Shoreline kayaks. The Shoreline is ~1.5 inches longer and maybe a 1/2" wider than my slender Shoreline Fuego. So you might keep a Montauk on the short list also.
If you call QCC about 10x owners they will give names of some people in your area (SEC girl--> southeast) Most people are proud owners and very happy to let you take their babies for a spin.
qajaqusa has occ. listings for light, low volume greenland style kayaks. Strippers and sofs show up on craigslist too. Look for a seller who has done a few of them, the more the better. They tend to weed out their mistakes w. each boat and are authentic craftsmen/women.
In the meantime if you can score a good price on a used Tsunami SP or Hurricane TampicoS (good meaning $500-$700) those are fun boats to paddle, easy for you to manage on and off the water, good boats to learn on for most skills til you find the ideal seakayak.
There are used Episea kayaks for ~$250-350. these are a very cool plastic low volume Greenland style seakayak in a daytourer length.
My kayak club was using them for awhile for kids classes (8-14 yr olds) before eventually replacing them w. Tsunami SPs. We have 2-4 for sale actually. They do need float bags, tho, so be sure you get good ones w. the boat or buy new ones. They are not expensive.
Plus you can get a good PFD and paddle w. in the meantime. It sucks to blow $2600 - $4000 on a new boat and have nothing left for gear, clothing, a rack, trips to kayak events, etc. Personally, I haven't gone down that road, or even close to it. So you can find small paddler boats at good prices....
Too wide I rented one several years ago. It was an okay kayak for the Florida river we were paddling in (totally flat water), but it felt sort of dead to me, and it was wide. Not as fast as other (narrower) plastic kayaks I’ve paddled; seems to hit a wall fairly soon and then plows.
It is not what I’d consider a small person’s boat, no matter what CD or its reps say.
Guess its time to save my pennies Thanks again, I can actually get a new Tsunami Sp here for 700 and a new Raven for 950, so I have a couple options and I will keep searching the ads…
RomanyLV While it’s the same hull design as the Romany with a lowered deck, it still might work better than a full size Romany. I’m a bit larger than you and paddle the LV as the regular size was too big.
Or, you could wait for the NDK Pilgrim to hit these shores but it won’t be cheap.
Whatever you do, DON’T let anyone tell you that a used CD Slipstream will work. I know a number of people who LOVE this boat, but it was huge on me and my husband and he paddles a fiberglass Avocet.
Friendly Fire, you said it all Can’t think of a thing to add.
Wouldn’t it be great for all of us small-statured kayakers to get together and paddle, try each others boats, tell horror stories about the high-volume kayaks foisted on us…
I’m in RI, Celia’s in upstate NY, FF’s in Michigan, pikabike’s in COLORADO…that throws the midpoint off a bit…still, I sense some kindred spirits here and it’d be great to meet you. Let me know if you’re ever in my vicinity and I’ll do the same.
for sure in fact, any small paddler passing thru SE Michigan (Detroit- Ann Arbor corridor) give me a shout. With enough advance notice you can paddle my Suka and Fuego…
AND we’ll go to Riverside Kayak Connection. They have the only Avocet LV in the state (AFAIK, and I do get around) PLUS the new sex on a fglass skin Tahe Greenland boat. Can’t wait to get in that one.
Also in the fleet: Romany, Romany LV, Explorer LV, P&H Capellas (the smallest ones) There is an Anas Acuta I think, as well. I know it was there previously.
They will have the Hurricane 140S and maybe a 135S is still around as well. I know they have a CD Raven and various Tsunamis incl. the SP. Tempest 165 in roto and IIRC in glass as well as the 170. These are all demo boats, too.
Size does matter It’s nice to know there are other little people out there! It so hard finding others that understand the unique needs of a small framed person. Anytime I vent, I get the standard eye-roll… Everything is always more expensive and very hard to find because only a few are produced or not produced at all. This applies to everything, not just boats and you need a darn stool to look your 15 yr old in the eye BTW, may have found a used Tchaika…
Standard Eye-roll My ex-husband was 6’1" and couldn’t understand why I wanted a stepstool for each level in the house. “If you need it, just go downstairs and get it!” He didn’t understand that I needed it every time I wanted to get to anything more than 6’ off the floor! One of the reasons he’s very definitely an ex. Grrrr.
angstrom you are a lovely man, thoughtful, and very wise in oh so many ways. We need to patent your genetic type and flood paddle shops, outfitters, liveries, etc. w. your clones.
no, you are not all like that.
Nearly every time I see his n her boats the “her” is getting the worst of it afa sizing. If nothing else the man should be smart about it and encourage her into a smaller boat that HE could use as a playboat!
...but geez, if you want your partner to be, well, your partner, it seems pretty logical to help eliminate the obstacles you can. There's plenty that they'll have to overcome on their own.
Seeing her grin when she got her first roll, or made a crossing in breaking waves....how could you not want that?
It seems that one of the common couples gripes -- in many sports -- is "she can't keep up/he never waits". Finding gear that lets her be efficient and comfortable helps everybody.
Size is everything At 5’1" and 114 with more boats bought, sold, demoed than I care mention, I’d pretty much given up. My husband tried the Tahe Marine Greenland and thought it was too small for him. I tried it a few days later and bought it.
"Can’t wait to get in that one" Does Riverside have other boats by Tahe for demo? There is no place on pnet for reviews and I would be interested in what folks think of having both a skeg and a rudder, which some Tahe boats do.
Dr.D haven’t been down there since the Tahe arrived.
I need to send a email over there about something else. I’ll ask if you like.
Or email Tiffany VanDerHey the co-owner direct at riversidekayak@ameritech.net. This isn’t private - it’s on their website. If you are headed out that way you can make arrangements for your own demo on the Trenton River Channel/lower Detroit River.
They are becoming a full on dealer for Tahe but which models will come into the demo fleet not sure. They have the largest demo fleet in the state as you prolly know, with lots of composites.
I saw the Tahe Greenland edition at GLSKS, it was beached one time that I saw, late in the day.
The very dark berryblack color. Low, lean and luscious! It looks like a young shark ready to slink into the water. Wait til you see people doing Greenland rolls in this Tahe. Wait til you roll in it.
If the Starlight Paddle on Thursday night had gone on as scheduled I knew who was gonna paddle it that night and would’ve had a shot at some seat time. As it was the starlight paddle was weather-aborted so between classes I never saw the Tahe and it was always occupied. But we know where it is now!
Romany LV (the old one) is noticeably tighter-fitting than standard Romany. Though it’s not super-narrow, the deck is indeed low. I used one stock (no padding in the thigh braces or on the seat), and it fit snugly enough for some very hard-over edging (and was easy to keep on edge).
The “new Romany LV” aka the Pilgrim has knee bumps, which give a bit more room for leg motion. I could still edge it happily, though. OP should try to demo all these versions to compare.
The Explorer LV (I own one) has more vertical room than the old Romany LV, less so than either standard Romany or standard Explorer.
Sounds like a cool idea I’d like to paddle at Pictured Rocks sometime. Road trip?
Seriously, it’s hard to find sellers who really understand what us small people are dealing with in our kayak searches. This applies not only to kayaks but to paddles. It’s one of the reasons I so like and appreciate Body Boat Blade’s attention to fit and sizing, even if it’s “only a lesson” and not a sales spiel. What other outfits are good with this? Something to think about when traveling to other areas (flying) and need to rent good kayaks.
I’m “only” 5’4 so not VERY small. But I weight barely 110 dripping wet. Now that’s “small” in the weight department. So, much of the too-big-boat problems still bothers me (see my other thread on foot peg, such a minor thing but such a headache!)
Basically, TWO main problems with big boats: 1) too high deck, so sore or even bloody knuckles after a few miles; 2) got blown around like a cork!
What I found, the “LV” version of many boats (Romany LV, Explorer LV etc), while not ideal, goes a long way in solving those two problems. By simply lowering the deck, you can paddle without hitting your knuckle. And you don’t get blown around half as much with the lower deck. It may still be on the wide side, and you may be pushing too much water. But that’s when paying the “high price” of the new breed of Avocet LV and Pilgrim becomes neccessary.
The rest of the lists of “fit” problems can be outfitted away by adding “materials” in the cockpit (thigh pads, hip pads, knee pads, heel raiser…). The high deck are inherent in the boat and can’t be helped. So you’d better get them half way right to have a prayer of a semi-suitable boat.
Rudder vs. skeg:
Anyway, in a nutshell, almost all of the low deck, narrow low volume boats are made or designed or at least inspired by the British design. As a result, they all equipped with skegs. So that’s something you’ll have to get your heads around.
Honestly, with a low deck and the resulting low windage, you may find the lack of rudder much less of a problem than you feared. (the suggestion of test paddle in a breezy day is right on!)
Price:
As for price, you’re in a minority of paddlers, so your options are limited both in new AND in used market. And to be honest, most coastal capable boats aren’t cheap anyway. So you may be better off to get your heads around that angle as well.
thoughts Ok, I have taken all the advice and weighed it against my initial need/long term need and think I may know what direction I am going to take.
I am leaning towards the Raven. Though the length is less then I would like, it’s weight will allow me ease of access to the water which will equal more seat time, and it’s design/size will be conducive to honing the skills I need. I live a mile and a half to the beach and to inland water, so when the ocean is too big, I have an alternative. My primary goal is skill building and I have the luxury of going out whenever the weather allows, if I have my own boat. Once I have a good handle on the basic skills needed for moderate surf, I will look for the longer boat. By that time, I should have more seat time in a variety of boats and will know what my preferences are.
Thank you all so much, you have been a tremendous help! Feel free to weigh in!
BTW, may have found a used Tchaika…