Cross off the Force 3
I was paddling with a woman on Saturday who was selling her Force 3 because she (at 115 pounds) found that she had to add 20ish pound of ballast in addition to her normal load of gear to get the boat to behave in wind or swells.
CD Squamish
As a small person, I like CD kayaks, there’s something about the design of the underside of the cockpit coaming that accomodates smaller paddlers, even in their higher-volume models.
23" is pretty wide for a low-volume boat that size, though. Plus, the widest part is just in front of the cockpit (fishform). I’d be concerned about the width interfering with efficient strokes; you might have to lift your arms higher to clear that width, which can be fatiguing. I also find that wider boats are harder to reach over when I edge the boat away from the blade, as with draws and bow rudders. That’s down the road for you, but if you want a boat you can grow into, give width some consideration. I wouldn’t go wider than 22", preferably 21".
CDs
Also on short list…
http://www.cdkayak.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=144&&
What size are you?
I’d look smaller than both
I had a Squall as my first sea kayak, at 5’4" and a little lighter in pounds so I was running 125-130 pounds. And while it got me out and back again safely for a lot of paddles, when it came time to really build skills the boat was too awkward to be helpful. BTW, I had a CD rep tell me that as well, that they really needed a boat smaller than the Squall for small women. I have similar concerns as trilliumlake about the Squamish, but haven’t paddled one so was loath to weigh in.
I really like angstom’s idea the best so far, or maybe a Necky Eliza or an Impex Mystic used at a fairly cheap price point.
ok
The Tsunami sp is the cheapest alternative! I will just have to wait and see after I get some seat time… I am having fun exploring all the boats and have found like in every other area of my life, I have expensive taste! Good thing I have a set budget.
Demoing for boat fit
– Last Updated: Aug-04-09 1:01 AM EST –
Let me save you some time. Well, I don't mean to tell ya what to do. jus' sayin' I'm 5'3" & 115.
A lot of the boats offered up on this lists are too big for you, right out the gate. There are some very knowledgeable people here, still, it is hard for them to honestly know how a boat feels to a petite person - or more importantly, how it should feel.
Demo them anyway. Sit in them and see how far away your hips are from the sides of the seat.If you can make a fist betw. your hip and the seat it's way too big. Minicell can only do so much.
You don't want to to be sliding all over the seat in moderately textured water.
If the thigh braces hit the top of your knee and not farther back on the thigh that is not good. Thigh braces can be built up from the underside so there is not so much travel to lift your thighs to engage them. BUT that is not the same as enlarging them on a horizontal plane. Doable but takes a little more skill so that they are sturdy, not bulky, and do not detract from ease of exit and entry.
Take a paddle and twist in each boat and see if your knuckles hit the deck or if your waist feels constrained by the height of the cockpit.
Avoid a boat that feels like you are sitting in a barrel. You want to clear the coaming enough to bend over towards the back deck. It's not only about rolling. It also means you will exit and enter more easily. Also it will make good torso rotation a lot easier.
Boat weight is gonna be very important for you. The greatest boat in the world is not gonna get paddled as much if it is a struggle for you to lift and carry. Thermoformed plastic is out there, so are fiberlass hybrids w. carbon and kevlar. From kit boats come strippers and skin on frame. I'd look very seriously at them if you find a petite one. Try very hard not to exceed 45 lbs if going w. a production boat, and sub40 would be even better. Yes they will cost more, or someone will have to make one for you if you are not able or inclined.
Very important: try to demo on a breezy day. A symptom of a boat that is too big is that you will not sit as low in the water as you need to, and you will fight the wind. Someone will say add ballast for trim. I say, why add more 10-20 lbs that YOU have to push with every stroke. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of getting a light boat.
A high deck (meaning high for you) will compound the problem. Try for a foredeck 11 inches or less. Rear deck 9 inches or less. That is real Low Volume, not what the marketing hype says it is.
Have someone check the waterline when you're in them. You should be able to sink the bottom of the seam into the water. If the seam is fully exposed in flat water you are prolly riding too high and any wind will cause you extra probs.
My own seakayak very short list for you:
Impex Mystic
Betsie Bay Idun
CD Raven
P&H Vela
Avocet LV
NDK Romany
CD Suka
Tahe Marine Wind 505
QCC 10X
Only the Tahe & QCC have rudders
my list of transitional (daytouring)kayaks for you:
Eddyline Merlin LT
Tsunami SP
Hurricane Aquasports Tampico 135S
WS Tchaika
None of them have rudders. Boats of that length that are well designed do not need a rudder.
The boats listed above are production boats. Some are no longer made like the Tchaika. The Tampico 135S is being replaced by the 140S, which has a bumped up deck. The 135S would almost certainly fit you better.
Keep an eye out for wood boats from CLC and Pygmy. Or a skin on frame built for a small person. From the small boatshops Betsie Bay Idun. That one is really hard to find.
This is what I own: CD Suka, North Shore Shoreline Fuego (no longer made), Hurricane Aquasports Tampico 135S. If you were anywhere nearby I'd say come try them all!
short list
I liked the Avocet LV A LOT but very pricey! I am going to try the Raven and a few others next weekend. I also liked the Willow but again pricey… I was hoping to find a boat that fits and was between 13’-15’ but all the ones with specs that looked right are priced between 2500.-3500. and that’s a lot for a first boat! You guys have definitely helped narrow the search parameters for me and my short list is getting more finely tuned by the day.
pricey
– Last Updated: Aug-03-09 5:46 PM EST –
totally agree and sympathize :(
The situation is that boats that really fit us are a very small market niche so not many made or purchased. And dealers can be reluctant to add them to a demo fleet.
Add to this that a lot of really nice
candidates like the Avocet LV, Necky Eliza (glass), P&H Scorpio LV, CD Willow,Impex Force Cat3,or the CD Suka are very recent designs so not many available used. For these, keep an eye out for demo boats that are 2 model years old. The shops are often eager to sell them at the end of the season or just into the next one.
The Mystic has been out there awhile, as has the Vela, and Romanys are such a popular longstanding design they show up frequently too.
Come to think of it, there are a good number of Impex Montauks around. They are very similiar to the North Shore Shoreline kayaks. The Shoreline is ~1.5 inches longer and maybe a 1/2" wider than my slender Shoreline Fuego. So you might keep a Montauk on the short list also.
If you call QCC about 10x owners they will give names of some people in your area (SEC girl--> southeast) Most people are proud owners and very happy to let you take their babies for a spin.
qajaqusa has occ. listings for light, low volume greenland style kayaks. Strippers and sofs show up on craigslist too. Look for a seller who has done a few of them, the more the better. They tend to weed out their mistakes w. each boat and are authentic craftsmen/women.
In the meantime if you can score a good price on a used Tsunami SP or Hurricane TampicoS (good meaning $500-$700) those are fun boats to paddle, easy for you to manage on and off the water, good boats to learn on for most skills til you find the ideal seakayak.
There are used Episea kayaks for ~$250-350. these are a very cool plastic low volume Greenland style seakayak in a daytourer length.
My kayak club was using them for awhile for kids classes (8-14 yr olds) before eventually replacing them w. Tsunami SPs. We have 2-4 for sale actually. They do need float bags, tho, so be sure you get good ones w. the boat or buy new ones. They are not expensive.
Plus you can get a good PFD and paddle w. in the meantime. It sucks to blow $2600 - $4000 on a new boat and have nothing left for gear, clothing, a rack, trips to kayak events, etc. Personally, I haven't gone down that road, or even close to it. So you can find small paddler boats at good prices....
Good luck!
Sea Pup - yostwerks.com
Too wide
I rented one several years ago. It was an okay kayak for the Florida river we were paddling in (totally flat water), but it felt sort of dead to me, and it was wide. Not as fast as other (narrower) plastic kayaks I’ve paddled; seems to hit a wall fairly soon and then plows.
It is not what I’d consider a small person’s boat, no matter what CD or its reps say.
Guess its time to save my pennies
Thanks again, I can actually get a new Tsunami Sp here for 700 and a new Raven for 950, so I have a couple options and I will keep searching the ads…
RomanyLV
While it’s the same hull design as the Romany with a lowered deck, it still might work better than a full size Romany. I’m a bit larger than you and paddle the LV as the regular size was too big.
Or, you could wait for the NDK Pilgrim to hit these shores but it won’t be cheap.
Whatever you do, DON’T let anyone tell you that a used CD Slipstream will work. I know a number of people who LOVE this boat, but it was huge on me and my husband and he paddles a fiberglass Avocet.
Friendly Fire, you said it all
Can’t think of a thing to add.
Wouldn’t it be great for all of us small-statured kayakers to get together and paddle, try each others boats, tell horror stories about the high-volume kayaks foisted on us…
I’m in RI, Celia’s in upstate NY, FF’s in Michigan, pikabike’s in COLORADO…that throws the midpoint off a bit…still, I sense some kindred spirits here and it’d be great to meet you. Let me know if you’re ever in my vicinity and I’ll do the same.
Cat
for sure
in fact, any small paddler passing thru SE Michigan (Detroit- Ann Arbor corridor) give me a shout. With enough advance notice you can paddle my Suka and Fuego…
AND we’ll go to Riverside Kayak Connection. They have the only Avocet LV in the state (AFAIK, and I do get around) PLUS the new sex on a fglass skin Tahe Greenland boat. Can’t wait to get in that one.
Also in the fleet: Romany, Romany LV, Explorer LV, P&H Capellas (the smallest ones) There is an Anas Acuta I think, as well. I know it was there previously.
They will have the Hurricane 140S and maybe a 135S is still around as well. I know they have a CD Raven and various Tsunamis incl. the SP. Tempest 165 in roto and IIRC in glass as well as the 170. These are all demo boats, too.
We could have a very fun day.
Size does matter
It’s nice to know there are other little people out there! It so hard finding others that understand the unique needs of a small framed person. Anytime I vent, I get the standard eye-roll… Everything is always more expensive and very hard to find because only a few are produced or not produced at all. This applies to everything, not just boats and you need a darn stool to look your 15 yr old in the eye 
BTW, may have found a used Tchaika…
Standard Eye-roll
My ex-husband was 6’1" and couldn’t understand why I wanted a stepstool for each level in the house. “If you need it, just go downstairs and get it!” He didn’t understand that I needed it every time I wanted to get to anything more than 6’ off the floor! One of the reasons he’s very definitely an ex. Grrrr.
we’re not all like that…
I bought my 5’ wife a custom small-shaft paddle many years ago, before they were common, and made her a custom GP.
Getting her a boat that fit and that she could carry herself made a huge difference in her paddling comfort and enjoyment. And isn’t that the point?
You shouldn’t have to fight your gear.
I do froth at the mouth a bit when I see matching “his & hers” kayaks when he’s 100+ pounds heavier and/or much taller.
angstrom
you are a lovely man, thoughtful, and very wise in oh so many ways. We need to patent your genetic type and flood paddle shops, outfitters, liveries, etc. w. your clones.
no, you are not all like that.
Nearly every time I see his n her boats the “her” is getting the worst of it afa sizing. If nothing else the man should be smart about it and encourage her into a smaller boat that HE could use as a playboat!
hardly a saint…
– Last Updated: Aug-04-09 4:49 PM EST –
...but geez, if you want your partner to be, well, your partner, it seems pretty logical to help eliminate the obstacles you can. There's plenty that they'll have to overcome on their own.
Seeing her grin when she got her first roll, or made a crossing in breaking waves....how could you not want that?
It seems that one of the common couples gripes -- in many sports -- is "she can't keep up/he never waits". Finding gear that lets her be efficient and comfortable helps everybody.
Size is everything
At 5’1" and 114 with more boats bought, sold, demoed than I care mention, I’d pretty much given up. My husband tried the Tahe Marine Greenland and thought it was too small for him. I tried it a few days later and bought it.