OI with a bit more rocker alternative

-- Last Updated: May-08-08 8:26 AM EST --

This is really a follow-up to a post I had at end of fall last year. But now, I'm trying to develop a short list of boats to go test paddle immediately. . . may not match my Impex OI but offer similar characteristics of good speed, rolling ease, and lower front deck for Greenland paddle use. I am seeking some additional rocker for easier turning when our group paddles leave the wide open lakes and go down tributaries or island exploration. My smaller size excludes some choices - 158 pounds and 5 foot 7". I am thinking these might be options but appreciate thoughts, realizing the best boat will be found by spending time in it. Thanks!

Impex Force 4 (Force 3 cockpit way too tight)
Valley Aquanaut LV
NDK Explorer ( cockpit LV too tight)
NDK Romany - thinking speed will be noticably decreased

Exclude these I already test paddled last year and did not desire:

Boreal Designs Ellesmere - found it tough to paddle straight without using skeg in even modest wind
Impex Montauk - owned it, wanted a faster boat
Impex Currituck - back deck too high for my laid back rolls
CD Caribou S - too large a cockpit for me
Impex Force 3 - seemingly the right Force boat for my volume, but my hips would not fit the cockpit
NDK Explorer LV- same as Force 3
P & H Capellas - higher front deck not ideal for GP

Maybe a Tempest 165

– Last Updated: May-08-08 10:00 AM EST –

I'm just a little bigger than you and it fits me well. Not as fast as an OI but it sure turns more easily.

I moved the seat back in mine to accomodate my long legs.

Moving the seat back

– Last Updated: May-08-08 11:08 AM EST –

Sorry to intrude in this thread. How did you move the seat back? I have a Tsunami 145 and may consider this to give my feet a little more ceiling room (the thing is long enough but my toes touch the top deck even in thin boots in some positions where I'd rather not have them do this). Second problem - my spray skirt pulls me back as my seating position is not in the center of the spray skirt opening but forward of it...

I think I can just drill one more hole and use the current rear hole as the front hole for the retaining screws on the side - this would move me just enough to address both my issues. Not sure if that would affect the center of gravity in any adverse way though...


– Last Updated: May-08-08 11:43 AM EST –

I swear moving the seat back improved the trim for me. My legs are a little long and heavy in relation to my torso.

Yes, I just moved the front seat bolt to where the rear one was. I paid the dealer to do my plastic one. They did a nice job welding the old holes shut. I moved the seat myself in the 'glass 165. The seat is just fastened in with two bolts and the other two bolts do nothing but fill the empty holes.

Good luck. I think you'll really like that seat further back.

Valley Aquanaut LV

to be OT of the original thread BUT…

take 4 bolts out

slide seat back

drill new holes in SEAT, NOT in deck

use same deck holes

replace bolts

you’ll have to re-install leg lifter and back rest straps.

might be a good time to remove backrest and replace with Tempest backstrap. :wink:


Force 4
All very good boats, but I think the Force 4 might be closest to what it appears you want. It is as fast (easy to paddle relatively quickly) as the OI, low windage, easy to roll, lots of cargo space, and much easier and quicker to turn than you would expect. Especially since you are accustomed to an OI. I too would have thought the 3 would be the ideal size for you. Just shows how individualized boat fit is.

rocker and speed?
Are those necessarily compatible?

how about a necky Looksha? thos have a fairly low deck and also have some rocker. But you need the rudder for the straight ahead speed part.

high seat and no skeg

– Last Updated: May-08-08 2:15 PM EST –

I personally prefer a skeg to rudder without getting into a debate on it-vanilla vs. chocolate. But more important, one very reputable outfitter in NY states on their website that the "The Looksha has a high rigid seat back which . . .impedes body rotation and laying back for rolling."

Force 3
It’s a wide hip thing . . . and that was with nylon shorts on. No way, with heavier clothing such as a dry suit with insulation.

If the Force 4 seems to big
but you really like the hull you could ask about replacing the hanging seat of the Force 3 with a foam seat. There is a lot of extra hip room outside of the seat hangers. I store a pump and a large sponge between the seat hangers and the hull on my Force 3. I am not sure of how complicated it would be to get you the room you need and still have an easy backband attachment. But it would be worth asking about if you really like the Force 3 otherwise.


I’ll have to look…
… how much room there is on the seat support to do what you suggest (the adjustable seat on my Pyranha Burn works exactly as you say but it comes with pre-drilled holes for different offset).

As for the Tempest backrest - I tried one in the store recently and am hooked! It feels a lot better for dynamic paddling than what they put in the Tsunami. The Tsunami is not bad (if not better) for slow-paced paddling in calm water though. Could not really tell that untill I had spent some hours with the Tsunami and started rotating my torso as opposed to "hand-paddling), or tried to lean back… Most new customers (me included) liked the “high back” position of the Tsunami as a selling point -;(

Force 4 big?
I did test paddle the 4 briefly last summer and felt ok in it although it certainly had more volume than the previous Montauk (and now OI) I was used to. The tough thing will be deciding if indeed the Force 4 is too big or not. Cockpit outfitting and adjusting foot braces can work to a degree. My biggest concern on size and volume for the Force 4 would be on afternoon paddles with minimal gear and my own 158 pounds, will it have much surface above water to catch the wind.

force 3 seat
You seem really dissapointed with the fact that you can’t fit in the force 3. Personally, I did not think the force 4 (my size) was that great of an improvement over the Tempest, definitely not easier to roll (individual preference) and certainly not worth a change to a new boat. Your hip issues are with the seat not the hull or the boat. simple fix. replace the seat with a minicell one. done.

Or do as Kudzu said and did and get a composite T165. speed with boats of this caliber are the individual motor installed in the boat.


Tempest 165 Composite

– Last Updated: May-08-08 4:29 PM EST –

I think this one should definitely be on the short list to test paddle.

However, max paddler weight is listed at 155 pounds. If I lose three more pounds, I'll have to buy all new paddling attire! :)

in that case
when you remove seat bolts take the seat all the way out and it’s waaaaay easier to remove backrest AND install new hardware for backstrap!good luck


That Max Weight is WRONG
I think total load maxes out at 300 or 325.

Force 4
I have a Force 4. I am 165 pounds and do not think it rides too high even with no gear. I like everything about it -fast, tracks well, but also turns easily with some edging. The only other boat I’ve paddled in the last 2 years is my wife’s RM Aquanaut LV, which I have less time in but like just as about as much. (Maybe I’m just not very critical.) To me, both boats seem like a similar combination of nice tracking and speed but good maneuverability when edged.

I have both Tempests 165 and 170
I am supposedly too big for the 165 at 200 but it is certainly paddleable and I just recently got the 170. The 170 is by standards a better fit for me and I just love them both.


the 170 is conservatively rated @ 325 but will hold more

the 165 goes an EZ 300+