Orange flag for safety -how to attach it to kayak?

We were taking a break on Jocassee when a chop developed. There were several kayaks headed our way and they were difficult to see among the wavelets.

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Understandable, but your speed in a power boat is surely reduced under choppy conditions. Furthermore, that doesn’t diminish the treat of partially submerged tree trunks that only show about 10% of the bulk. I guess it depends on the waterway, but we have large trees, parts of piers, countless other things like wood planters and lawn furniture, plastic toys - my daughter inherited a paddle board on her lawn following a extrodinary tide from a passing hurricane. The pier is normally 3 feet high butbis civered by about 6 inches of water at least three times a year. It doesnt take much imagination to conjur images of the flotsum that washes into the navigable channel, yet power boat captains are apparently oblivious to the danger.





That stuff floats on the tide until it washes up on a beach, then subsequent tides and waves dislodge portions of it weeks later to become hazards to navigation. As a kayaker, I’ve had a close and personal view of it. You know the saying: “What you don’t know won’t hurt you!” It’s not true. Kayaks are highly visible compared to the partially submerged objects. I believe the power boats that Paddledog52 encounters has less to do with visibility than a sick disregard for people in kayaks.

He should look to see if the boat has little kayak stencils on the side. I believe rules for operating a boat under power requires a proper lookout. Period, and IGNORANCE is not an excuse.

Here we go! Sorry, I di’int see it . . . thought it was just a kayak.

Maybe there shoukd have been a lookout. Sonebody should pass a law.

I was once almost run down by a mid-sized power boat when paddling in a creek near Annapolis. The boat was changing course erratically. Turns out there was nobody at the helm. The operator, a father presumably, was in the back of the boat yelling at some children. Flag wouldn’t have helped.

A flag inserted between your body and a PDF isn’t something I’d want to have in a capsize situation.

I’ve used small neoprene o-rings when attaching brackets and other things to a kayak hull to waterproof them. No issues with an adhesive not sticking or degrading.

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Thank you! I looked at drywall anchors and they are of different styles. Which one you would use? Could you please post a picture?

“Mostly”, o yeah…

" In 2023, Brevard County had 22 cyclists and pedestrian fatalities"

That in one (my) county, not state :frowning: And it is not a lot of bicyclists on the roads, I rarely see one.

About visibility. I talked to guys running air boats rides, nice guys! I met 2 of them while kayaking Thursday. They told me I am invisible on open water in blue shirt because of water reflecting sky. I had blue PFD and blue shirt, my mistake, I wanted to be pretty and camouflaged myself nicely. So here is my new shirt on the right. Will also get new orange hat and new (orange) PFD. So to everyone new here - don’t make my mistakes.

About reeds. I don’t have a good picture but here it is. Do you see how tall these reeds are? And they drive air boats in these passages 35-40 mph. They really don’t see me behind a corner.

Also they told me never to come Sat. or Sun. because it’s a lot of boat traffic on the river and they are all DRINKING!

And here for the heap is my personal experience from couple of years ago. Was kayaking on rental kayak (Dead river) and approaching large aluminum pontoon boat (these are also used for tourists) parked near the bank. I thought maybe fishing or something. Motor was not running. But when I approached they started the engine and it was a loud roar and fountain of water. And obviously big waves. And several people up there laughed. I did not capsize but they thought it was hilarious. Flag will not help against idiots like this of course.

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Yellow is very visible esp. In low light.

This is a long post, intended to answer not just your stated question but also a few of the likely questions from someone who has no experience with this kind of work. Be sure to read to the end before making any decisions.


Here is the basic style of anchor that I was originally thinking of.

Note that the minimum wall thickness that the pictured version works for is 1/4 inch. That’s probably thicker than the wall of your kayak so this exact style (pictured) is probably not what you want. That minimum wall thickness will be the same as the “height” of the non-expanding collar that you see right behind the backing plate that butts against the outside of the wall when the unit is installed. I seem to recall seeing some of these anchors that are made for thinner walls, and about a year ago I used one for replacing a broken anchor that attached the license plate holder to the bumper of my car, but my memory could be wrong, both about the size that I bought and about the thickness of material I installed it through. I went to a basic hardware store and sorted through their little drawers of MULTIPLE sizes of these things to choose the one that would work for me, and that might be your best bet also. In your case, you would get one where the height of that non-expanding collar would be about 1/8" to 3/16". If you use these, you would need to bend those sharp little teeth flat which are on the back side of that outside backing plate, so that that plate would pull up flush against the wall of your kayak with no interference from those teeth (bend them with a pliers).

You don’t need the installing tool that you will see being recommended when shopping for these online. First you will drill a hole that has a big enough diameter to let you insert the “metal cage” through the hole (note that you can force the cage through a slightly-undersized hole, one that’s not quite as big as the bulge in the cage. That bulge will compress a bit and spring back as you shove the device in though the hole you drilled). Be sure to push on the screw head, not the backing plate, if forcefully shoving the device into a tight hole, to keep the cage from deforming ahead of time. Then you will have to hold that outside plate to keep it from spinning while you tighten the screw up snugly so that the internal metal cage expands and clamps back against the back side of the kayak hull. Once it’s snug, you can take the screw out and the anchor will remain in place, ready to use. You can then re-insert the screw for clamping down whatever hardware you are using as your flagpole holder. Likely, you will want to put a washer under the screw head when clamping down your chosen bracket system (and the washer probably will not be included with any kit of these devices that you buy, but you can buy small packages of such washers online or at the hardware store).

If you can’t find the above item in a version which is designed for such a thin wall thickness as the hull of your kayak, here’s an alternative of similar design:

These are made to clamp in the same manner, but they will tightly clamp themselves onto much thinner walls. Again, you can dispense with the installing tool and just hold the outer ring to prevent it from spinning while you tighten the screw, and once it’s fully tight, you can take the screw out again. One slight complication I see with these (including every brand and style of these that I looked at) is that the outer ring is thicker, so your flagpole base bracket will “not quite” sit flush against the hull. That’s probably fine, though.

For both of these styles, you’ll need to smear sealant around the edges of your drilled hole when installing the anchor (applying sealant later is probably just about as good). Then later, you’ll want to put sealant around the screw threads when you are finally attaching your flagpole hardware (the sealant won’t prevent you from removing the screw later if you want to remove the flagpole bracket, for a while or forever).


There’s another popular anchor that is very strong, which someone might recommend to you if you go shopping for these in-person, but I don’t recommend using them. This one:

The problem with these is that you need to drill a substantially bigger hole, and that hole will be hard to seal unless your flagpole bracket can be sealed against the hull by itself (that’s a good idea anyway, if the design allows you to do it that way). What’s worse about these anchors is that you have to install everything at the same time - your anchors AND the bracket that you are attaching to your boat. After that, you can never remove and reinstall that bracket again, or at least not conveniently, since once you remove the screw, the anchor wings will fall off inside the boat and rattle around in there forever (plus, you’ll be left with a large hole that is inconvenient to seal). With the first two styles mentioned above, you can always remove your flagpole bracket entirely, and just put the screws back into the anchors to re-seal the holes, and then you can mount the bracket again later, and you can repeat that process again and again, forever. Since you can’t do that with this “butterfly wing” style, it’s likely that these are a bad choice for you, even though they are super strong and work even on very thin walls like what your kayak has.


But finally, I STILL see nothing wrong with using fairly large-diameter sheetmetal screws, such as sizes #10 through #12. That method will be very simple, it will be easier to seal (and actually, it’s probably essentially self-sealing), and it’s almost sure to be good enough to last for a really long time. If the plastic hull material that’s gripped by the sheetmetal screws ever fails (gets “stripped out”), you can think about more elaborate anchors like the two main ones described above, or just solve the problem by switching to a larger-diameter sheetmetal screw!!

Here’s an example of the type of sheetmetal screw that would work, but there are many you could choose from. Note that what’s in the title for the picture in this link is size #4, but you would be looking to use larger sizes than that, as noted in the first sentence of this section (the diameter of the screw is described by the size number, and the length of the screw is described in inches).

You probably don’t want any screws that are “self-drilling” because lacking that feature will allow you to give them a tighter fit, by drilling a slightly smaller hole than what a self-drilling screw would do. You will likely have to drill your own hole anyway to maintain work accuracy, and speaking of that, you will need to make a little dimple in the plastic for starting the drilling process using a hammer and punch, or an awl. Choose a style of sheetmetal screw which has the underside of the screw head being flat, as seen here (not tapered or wedge-shaped). The drive method can be a slotted or Phillips head screwdriver, but those with a hex head (like a tiny bolt) are much easier to crank in - using a small wrench instead of a screwdriver. This is true even if you drive them in with the help of an electric drill (you can get little socket wrenches that are turned by a drill, and a wrench doesn’t slip loose as easily as screwdriver heads do). You will only be installing about four or five of these, maybe even fewer, so don’t fret too much about this last part. As noted with the anchors above, you may need to use a small washer under the head of each screw, especially if the mounting holes on your flagpole bracket are a bit large.


Final (?) Edit:
Screw heads that are tapered on the bottom surface would be appropriate if the bracket that you mount to the hull has tapered (flared) screw holes.

Stainless steel would be the best material for sheet metal screws, but honestly, in fresh water, rust issues are pretty minor. Still, these screws are available in stainless steel. Those anchor devices described at the top are probably somewhat rust resistant on account of their plating, but I wouldn’t make a guess as to how much so.

Having spent many a dark hour in the morning and evening watching for deer, I know that “blaze orange” is far easier to see in very dim light than any other “basic color”. It can be too dark to see detail on the trunks of trees 50 feet from you, but that guy in the woods an eighth of a mile away wearing blaze orange almost appears to glow, and the same goes for that guy “way out there” across a field. Blaze orange is not a very stable dye, though, and it loses it’s “glow factor” after a few years (sooner if it’s worn a lot).

When you say “yellow”, if you are talking about “high-visibility yellow” instead of the basic color yellow, that’s a whole other thing, and yes, it’s very easy to see in dim light.

On this subject, though, I sometimes bring along a high-visibility safety vest. My PFD would cover up the main body of a high-visibility shirt, but I can wear the vest right over the top of my PFD and present a large area of high visibility. I don’t use it much, but in high-traffic areas it seems like a good idea.

Here’s a fairly simple and elegant solution … Angler kayaks nearly always have two of these fishing rod holders mounted behind the seat, and they are easy to add with a drill, a hole bit or some cutters, and some silicone sealant. You have the usual places available on your kayak to put them in, as shown by the yellow dots.

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And then you can stick in the flag that GregofDeleware suggested above in a link.

(Check to make sure this flag is tall enough for your needs.)

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Some of that style rod holders come with a plug when not in use.

So I just need to make hole, insert tube and screw on? Sounds easy enough :slight_smile:

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Best idea yet!!

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Rod holders generally come with stainless fasteners. Regardless of anchor type, I would not use any non-stainless fasteners or anchors if used in salt or brackish waters.

With hollow wall anchors not only will they quickly degrade, but the bolt will rust to the anchor often require drilling to later remove them.

There are stainless rivet-nuts that are available that have extremely high pull out strength that are excellent for plastic, but they require a special tool to install.

Yes, now that this rod-holder idea came up, the whole idea of hollow-wall fasteners doesn’t seem worth doing.

Although it’s now a moot point on account of knowing about those rod holders, preventing rust on steel bolts is very easy. As a guy who has kept using cars forever, and living in the rust belt and with my newest car at the present time being close to 30 years old, I learned ages ago to make it a habit to prevent rust on bolts and close-fitting steel connections. On virtually every bolt that’s removed (for whatever reason), I put a bit of grease on the threads before installing it again. That will prevent any bolt from EVER seizing, even after 20 or 30 years or more in the weather. The same could be done on those wall anchors, and I expected to mentioned this if the project had ever taken off in that direction.

My experience has been that almost any kind of “shiny” plated steel is amazingly rust resistant, and in this case I think those anchors are supposed to be nickle plated - and nickle is a pretty durable plating material. But as I mentioned in that post, I don’t claim to be sure about rust resistance of those wall anchors (and again, it no longer matters).

I looked at the link for those rivet nuts you mentioned, and I had forgotten that I have seen those being installed before. You are right, those would be better than typical blind anchors like I described. Truth be told, with a bit of trickery you can easily avoid the need for the installation tool if you are only dealing with a few of these anchors. I’m glad you reminded me of those things!

My memory can be terrible as I get older. I just remembered that I actually bought a few of those riv-nut things (not sure of the brand but they looked basically the same) to anchor something to the surface of the front seat of my little fishing boat. It turned out that there was a 3/4" plywood board beneath the fiberglass surface there, so I used a completely different kind of anchor instead. But I did buy those things and now I can’t even remember how I learned that they exist. Sheesh.

You are right that a saltwater environment changes everything.