It is inappropriate and somewhat rude to hijack a paddling forum with such a off-topic subject. I wasted time reading about your personal opinion on the 2nd Amendment rather than about paddling. There’s no way to get that time back. Please respect the rest of us and post in an appropriate page.
Pag
You’re 100% right, IMO. Rarely does a sudden Eureka! revelation change our thinking. Instead, it evolves gradually (almost subconsciously) as circumstances change and/or we encounter new bits of information.
I do worry about the ideological segregation of so many news outlets today. They’re entirely focused on affirming the righteousness of one group and the wickedness of everyone else that we rarely hear anything we don’t already believe, and that suppresses any evolution of thought. And what about the 43% of people (Pew Research) who get “news” from the tiktoc hawkers, charlatans, propagandists, and conspiracy theorists? Scary!
I remember as a teen when Cronkite said Viet Nam was unwinnable, and later when Woodward and Bernstein showed us that Watergate wasn’t just a botched, two-bit burglary, and still later … Iraq (you have lots of good company there). I just hope we have the collective will to climb out of our respective echo chambers, the wisdom to separate fact from propaganda, and the curiosity to listen (really listen) to well-reasoned ideas other than our own.
I appreciate your comment, thanks. Now, for me, I’ll paddle off to other threads with @Pagayeur.
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I don’t like uncivil, or hijacking posts, and I’m so glad you joined the party. Maybe I can catch you up on the post. I’ve already butted out thanks to the other members who rejected my comments as . . . Less than civil. Let me take everbody back to the Original Post and I promise not to interfere or hijack the post again.
I attached the OP below. Have at it! You made me feel so silly.
How is this one thread hijacking the whole forum? There are plenty of other threads and it would be easy to ignore this one. That brings up my other question, why did you “waste” your time reading the thread when the title clearly told you what it was about? If people don’t want this type of topic on the forum, the best way to make that happen is to ignore it and don’t reply. It would quickly die off and be gone.
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And yet the opposite happens.
I learned a few things reading to posts of others.
If this is because of me, I’m sorry - maybe I didn’t word my comment well. I never meant to offend of accuse anyone of anything, and was talking about society in general. I had hoped to actually discuss it.
There is no doubt that 2A gives people gun rights.
But we suck at guns in America. We kill around 35,000 people per year and now mass shootings are all the rage. They happen all the time. There are 300 million guns in circulation. Now black guns are taking over, guns made for war fare.
I grew up with guns, but now I don’t go to gun shops or gun shows because of all the clowns waving muzzles around. I see people brandishing. I have been threatened by one of my neighbors. I see few solutions for the problems of our own making. Red flag laws are a start. Keep guns out of the hands of people with known mental health issues. Start with that.
First, I don’ actually know many participants here, so it’s not rational for me to be offended by comments a post makes about my public persona. Second, I have no intention of convincing anyone of anything. My only goal is to offer “my” point of view. When I do that, readers either figured it out and agreed, disagreed, or get offended. La! There it is.
What does offend me is when someone quotes things as fact that I believe are outright misinformation, and they refuse to seek original source material to verify the actual information. A friend called me and asked if I heard a specific quote which I knew was a blatant lie (I know the context of the quote and the inference was a lie, because I saw the original clip of the speech). My friend wanted to know how I could tolerate the utterance. It was late, so I found the video clip and sent it to him. Tonight, when he calls back to comment, I don’t expect him to change his view about the person he believes utter the words, but I will not tolerate hearing him reject the actual un-edited statement, and then continue to accept the obvious lie as reality. I will not nuture a relationship with anyone who cannot separate fact from fantasy. I don’t have time for bigotry, blatant stupidity, or racisim. He doesn’t have to agree with me about the person, but to perpetuate a lie shows me a lack of character. I will admit when I know I’m wrong. Some might disagree with that - then don’t interact with me.
There are specific people on this forum I will not address or respond too, because I lost respect for them. There are certain topics I will not discuss on open forum again: such as firearms, global warming, GPS, skegs vs rudders, or high angle vs low angle and a few other topics, such as how I compensated when paddling after permanent rotator cuff damage. Part of the pleasure of an activity is figuring out the process on your own.
I’m fairly meticulous (some including myself might say nit-picky) about most activities. Before I say something, I try to make sure it’s accurate. I don’t want to look like an ignorant rube, but anyone who has not had the opportunity to check the veracity of my statements has no reason to accept anything I say. Few actually give a damn what I think about any of it, and that’s fine with me. However, it erodes the very reason I came on this platform which is to share information. I still have some value, even if its to illustrste how not to act.
If anyone is offended by my comments . . . I dearly hope you recover.
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Yes. Sometimes people will attack a news source but it doesn’t matter if you are able to chase down the primary source. Everyone learns this in school so it doesn’t matter to me who printed it if you just check it out.
I read mostly independent news sources that provide the PDFs and court documents or original text to back up their story. If it a partisan site and I view the coverage through that lens but ultimately you have to check everything if it is important to you.
Lots of fibs out there at the moment.
People get very upset by the truth but even if you don’t care to repeat it, you will know.
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Sigh. If only that were true.
Here is an interesting set of videos that may cause thinking folks to reevaluate some of their beliefs.
PLEASE NOTE: It’s not about paddling at all, but is directly connects to the issue of this thread.
DON’T watch them if facts about a subject other then paddling offend you!!!
NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO WATCH!!!
and
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Thank you for the 2 statistic filled videos. I would be interested to know how these numbers track to 2024 as each video was about a decade old. Can you recommend a source or two for contemporary fact based data? The FBI one is through just 2019. The Pew Research Center published one in 2021 based upon FBI and CDC. The Gun Violence Archive appears to have up to date info but I do not know how credible they are.
Off the top of my head I can’t answer your questions, but I know some of these people can.
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I believe people have the agency and right to commit
suicide even if it’s tragic but I don’t want the government that’s involved in funding medical care in charge of it as it has perverse incentives.
The way they are combining suicides under gun violence statistics is problematic for me. The WHO does it also.
I think they should investigate all the black box warning psychiatric drugs they have so many people on because it appears that many of these shooters dissociate and that is how the medications work to make them less responsive and sad.
Homicide and suicide are closely related IMO.
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Using suicides in the gun violence statistics is a perfect example of manipulating facts to push a certain agenda. The argument is that our country has a large number of gun deaths because of the presence of guns. Thereby, vilifying the gun and creating a reason to “control” guns. However, when looking at suicides in isolation from homicides there is no causation or correlation with the amount of guns in a nation. Several countries with much greater controls and less gun ownership have higher rates of suicide.
Additionally, the point that the emphasis of the gun distracts attention from other issues such as mental health and drug use that contribute to homicides and suicides.
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@davbart @MohaveFlyer, I stopped participating on this topic, but have to agree with your points. The following is for both of you:
Reading about the tragedy in Moscow. I urge you to view the live footage before the networks censor it. Strict gun laws (5 terrorists had fully automatic weapons in a packed theater, hand grenades, and gasoline), in a totalitarian state, with controlled borders, and advance warning from the US of an imminent attack, did nothing to stop this tragedy. Fortunately, the incompetence of the terrorists prevented an even greater toll. Notice the stunned public, stumbling around in the open amidst live gunfire, as they try to assess the situation. As Steve pointed out - you must think like a predator, and react accordingly. Watch the footage. I have no doubt that both of you would know how to react. Take care.
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That’s a tough one, I know in this specific situation, reacting accordingly didn’t include returning fire, but it does bring up an issue with carrying and reacting to defend yourself and others.
I believe the 2nd Amendment is an essential freedom enshrined in our Constitution. However, I do recognize not only will some (criminals) abuse it, but also some will not have the ability to “react accordingly”. Training can help, but even then it isn’t easy to pull the trigger on another human being. People should recognize and use their 2A rights, but they also need to make an honest assessment of their willingness and capability to act. I would say to anyone, if you are uncertain of your willingness to actually use your firearm, you shouldn’t carry one because if you fail to use it, it can be turned against you and others.
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I specifically avoided the topic of induvidual rights and armed reaction. My point is to emphasize that within the US is long overdue. The US warned Russia of an imminent terror event (much like we did in 2017). They warned us of the two involved in the Boston Bombing. The diminishing FBI actially interviewed them (as they did the Ft Hood shooter, and other events), but blew the leads off. I simply saw the live video (that type of detail is censored here to avoid alarming the public). I happened to be viewing it when I read the last two posts. Forget you gun, because you can’t legally carry it in a gun free zone. Watch the sheep scratching their head trying to figure out what to do, while standing in broad daylight. As Steve explains - it’s about situational awareness and immediate course of action by gertong out of the threat zone without thinking about it.
I don’t think the message is necessary for either of you, but you may see things that you can use to educate people close to you. We will experience that. Last week, NY apparently mobilized the National Guard in the subways. That wasn’t intended to stop turnstile jumpers or track pushing (they don’t consider that a crime). The time to learn firearms skill is long past. Now we must rely on our reaction to threats. The catch and release of people on the terror watch list and coming from countries histole to the US is growing exponentially. Comments can go directly to me rather than this thread, unless it’s critical of me. Id rather not discuss this on open forum. It’s a waste of time to most readers.
I already saw it all, terrible.
We don’t go to concert halls, movies etc anymore because there are too many crazy people. I never really liked being in big crowds anyway, they have always been unpredictable. Somebody gets spooked and they stampede you.
Well, i will not draw my gun in many situations if I see a way to retreat. My firearm is to use if i am cornered and fear for my life and I don’t have any plans to try and defend anyone else because one is likely to be shot by the LEO in all the confusion.
If my car breaks down in the desert and I had to walk for help, I’d have it, etc. I had a carjacker running through our neighborhood chased by helicopters and police in SoCal and I put my kids in my room
and locked the door, took the firearm from the safe.
He broke into someone else’s house and he would only get shot if he tried to break down our bedroom door. I have had the training about drawing your weapon but I do not think it’s all that realistic in modern society.
For example, I had a homeless man try and get in my car in LA when I was at a drive through and I never drew it because I saw that he was a vagrant. I realized then that it’s hard to be fast enough when you are processing information and I’m okay with pretending I don’t have it in some situations.
I had a gang called F Troop try and jump me in my car in a Santa Ana parking structure. They were calling out gang signs and blocking my path and I opted for the gas pedal vs the gun. I was out at all hours of the night in LA and SoCal in the 90s meeting the helicopter and the ambulance for calls. This was during the crack epidemic and there many carjackings. I worked on a couple guys that had been shot on the freeway from the overpass.
The way to be ready to respond is to constantly think through various scenarios and decide how you will best handle a threat. If I am in Costco, I’m looking for the way out the back or places to hide because I’m not interested in a gun fight.
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