@kayamedic said:
How tall ARE you?? Geez I’d dislocate my shoulder with a 58 inch even in my WildFire.
The 46 fits me just fine in the RF. I am 5’5".
5’10" - more a a cab-forward paddler, kneel most of the time.
@BigSpencer said:
Besides when you truly develop your skills with one craft far earlier in life than you do with another type of craft…and it does what’s needed and you have fun with it, why change.
Creatures of habit - that’s probably true. Personally, I rarely use a bent shaft paddle, and have no desire to own a pack boat - even a high-end boat like a RapidFire. Not my style, but I can still recognize a nice boat when I see one, and I would be even less likely to own a kayak of any type.
Big Spencer the pack canoe is not a manifestation of the current recreation industry. It is the FIRST canoe developed for use recreationally ( natives had working boats) and has a 150 year old history in the Adirondacks. Non New Yorkers think this is a new fad. Many have never seen one before.
However those around the Adirondacks know different. One of my joyous paddles was being in an 1881 lapstrake pack canoe called Sheherezade. Its a Rushton design.
kayamedic,
Of the true pack canoe…I stand open to correction. I know about the Adirondacks and the area’s canoeing history…guess I was confused as to just what the OP was grasping for. Canoes of every size have been portaged through the woods here in northern Maine…pond/bog/lake to wherever. My great granddad had some pictures from all over the woods with canoes on flyfishing expeditions, beginning from the Civil War era on up to the 1940s…damn friend of the family that was into Genealogy grabbed them all…as she was a neighbor for decades. You just went right over my head with the Rushton Sheherezade info ;-)…gotta do a little web surfing this weekend.
I think pack canoes just wannabe pack canoes. I don’t think they wannabe kayaks. If the design works for you, sweet. If not, get something else that works better.
Its interesting that some designs are heavily tied to history still. I never heard or had seen a Maine Guide Paddle until a trip on the St Johns when I saw someone standing to scout the line and said…“wow that is neat”.At that time I never knew of the Northwoods stroke either which is the way you use those tall paddles when you sit.
And then there are the Grand Lakers and Rangeley boats.
Whereas in the Midwest the birchbark was king and its descendants tended to be light and roomy for walking on long but established paths.
The book “The Canoe” by John Jennings is very information packed on canoe history for anyone interested in learning about that,
Actually, for a couple days, I was regretting having started this thread for the obvious reason, I should never have started it with such an arrogant and condescending attack on pack canoes. For that I do apologize.
Taken in context, it was my initial response to an article I had just read, written in 2011 in Canoe & Kayak.
To set the record straight, I love pack canoes, I´ve had one, the Bert Hathaway 10´ fiberglass, for 30 years and I´ve spent more hours in it on small ponds and tiny steams than any other boat I own. I´ve caught more fish out of it too than all of my other boats combined. I remember one special day when I carried it for miles up a power line that traversed a mountain in New Hampshire where there was a lovely little trout pond at the top. I caught my first orange belly there and have never forgotten the wonderful aroma of it cooking over a campfire and the extraordinarily remarkable flavor of the wild meat. Excellent. I want to go back again.
At this point, I stick by my apology to guidebook boy, I was wrong to be so arrogant and condescending. Obviously the pack boat has a real place in today´s sport craft lineup. Good luck and good speed to all you pack boat owners. I admire our allegiance to your craft(s).
Just to be sure, I´m still convinced the Rapid Fire is a pig, but only because I´ve paddled others that were far superior. I know the designer and original manufacturer of the Rapid Fire, and I´m pretty sure they are curious too about why such a splendid looking boat can put up such a fierce looking bow wake, even when loaded and paddled properly.
Headwaters Deu is entitled to his opinion - no matter how uninformed. And comparing a Hathaway or Hornbeck to a Placid hull? Laughable. I wouldn’t go out in much weather with either of those two; Rapidfire I’ve crossed Lake Champlain, Port Kent to Burlington, with 2.5-3’ swell. No problem - especially with our spray decks on. I’ll also take our wins every year in the Adirondack Canoe Classic (90-Miler) in either a Rapidfire or the slightly faster Shadow. Hard to argue with a 15’ “pig” that can cross 10 miles of open water with 3’ swell and break 15 hours in the 90. And weigh 22 lbs doing it. Check out the opening page on our website www.placidboats.com - that’s just before LC got rough. Check the conditions in some of the 90s the last decade, too.
I invite you to come up and visit Lake Placid and actually try the boats you are denigrating. They’re not your gramppa’s pack canoe, Headwaters2.
To each his own… I love my Pig for paddling Lake Superior and the Gulf of Mexico… With camping gear… Joe I would love to have a Bart Hathaway hull for its own merits.
I agree on Hathaway boat.This fellow seems to be basing his whole pack canoe experience on those hulls. Be real curious to see if he’s actually been in a Rapidfire and for how long (and/or what axe he has to grind). I agree there are tools for every job. If the water is bigger than the boat, hard decks make sense; if not, why are you lugging all that extra weight, making it harder for you and your gear to get in and out, and leaving your best friend home?
To say the Rapidfire is an inefficient boat, or “pig”, is so far removed from reality that it leads me to believe this guy has no experience in the boat. I’m guessing people will read the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the Rapidfire on this site as well as its record in races in all weather conditions and draw their own very different conclusions.
Incidentally, “the original manufacturer” of the Rapidfire - Placid Boatworks - was and is the only manufacturer of that boat and it is our best selling model
I only want to make a few points about my pack canoes. Over the last 35+ years, I’ve gone through a number of canoes, having up to 6 or 7 at one time in the heyday of my youth. But as time caught my body and put it through the wringer, leaving it full of arthritis, osteoporosis, bursitis, sciatica and tendonitis, I finally even had to sell my beloved Curtis Ladybug and Moore Reverie I because I was unable to kneel anymore, and I needed to go as light as possible for carrying and transporting on the car. I’m 66 years old, 5 ft. tall, 123 lbs., and if I had to lift any kind of kayak up on the roof of our car, I would have to totally give up paddling. Thank goodness my husband discovered PBW’s Spitfire. Not only was I able to lift it, but it handled so well on the rivers and ponds of northwest Pennsylvania that I was able to continue enjoying my paddling avocation for the last dozen years. I also bought a Hemlock Nessmuk which for me is the perfect canoe for paddling the beautiful spring-fed winding streams in Florida. I love the Nessmuk so much that I bought a second one–one for when we are in PA and one for our time in FL. I use the Spitfire (one of several I have owned) for paddling upstream in FL against some strong currents when we paddle without running a shuttle; also when I paddle with people who I know will be paddling hard and strong–I can keep up. Both of my models are maneuverable, yet also are stable enough for me to use my camera for wildlife photography without a waterproof casing. (I do use a Pelican case for between photo stops.) Anyway, I paddle with fellow retired, older folks in Florida, most of whom paddle various styles of kayaks. Fine for them, they enjoy them, and most of them have bought vans so they can transport the kayaks inside and don’t have to lift and tie down on the roof. When they try to help me pick up and carry any of my canoes, they are amazed at the weight compared to the relatively heavy kayaks. People have almost fallen over backward when lifting the Nessmuks for the first time because they didn’t realize they only weigh 12-13 lbs! So for many people, kayaks are just fine. But for me, pack canoes have kept me on the water and enjoying life because of comfort, light weight and ease of paddling. I hardly ever paddled big water nor have I done much portaging. So if you want to argue those points, go ahead. Pack canoes are perfect for the paddling I personally do.
Hmm… For me The RF is fine cause: I can get two packs in it for ten day trips and it will haul 160 lbs of water in addition without being a submerged log. ( though I don’t recommend that). I tried fitting packs into the faster Shadow without success.
Sometimes Pig has merit. Rapid Pig…Greased Pig… I’ve had races with kayakers and actually being an old woman slow and out of shape won…
@Sparrowood I had no idea you were such a wreck! I guess your pack canoes make it all look easy. @Headwaters2 to each his or her own. You sure sound angry, not sure why. It is nice that there are so many boats to choose from. @JoeMoore still trying to decide between blue and green.
It’s one of the curses of our age-the slavish addiction to zero-sum solutions. Canoes and kayaks are not comparable, and one does not replace the other. I also have two children, very different people. Saying that someone shouldn’t use a canoe because a kayak is better would be like saying I should only keep one of my children. It’s neither right nor wrong-it’s nonsense. By the way, I also have canoes AND kayaks.
Only 3 years late on the site; but just in case anyone still reads. I have been paddling for some 60 years and this is the most ignorant conversation I have ever read. As a couple have suggested, it all comes down to what you are planning to do with respect to paddling. For most of the last 35 years my primary craft was a Jensen WWII. Why? 1) I tripped with a companion, 2) It handled big water, small lakes, and rivers really well, 3) it could handle a ton of gear for extended trips. I used it from coast to coast in both Canad and the U.S. and in flat and white water. Loved it. Still have it. But when and if I go solo and want to do some real exploring in back country, it is a pak canoe. Why? It’s at least half the weight of the lightest kayak and I have no need for the shell. Just added weight and useless for me. If I want to play around on rapids, or expect to face really fierce winds or high waves, or go above class III rapids then it will be my kayak. It’s not unlike my small shop. I have 6 different kinds of saws, each with its particular use. No one-size-fits all. So its a matter of what your intentions are.
