best post yet…
-but just as of topic as the worst above
– Last Updated: Jun-27-07 12:14 AM EST –
- if not more. All nice and warm/fuzzy/sentimental though - so the irony of that will get a pass from most.
Should it be any surprise that there was better beginner WW advice at BT? Someone already correctly pointed out that the majority here are flat water/rec or long boat/55+ types (makes me feel almost young!).
FWIW - I may pull all of my posts (agree they're of no real value beyond self indulgent diversions), just waiting for the best timing to yank njk's chain one more time as pulled posts seem to be another pet peeve of his.
If I had to wait for someone else
I’d never get on the water. Didn’t say it is always the best option, but sometimes one has to do it or forget about it.
I paddle 90% of the time by myself. Yes, I’m at a beginner level, Yes, I’ll most likely have to learn my rolls by myself, Yes, Wet exits and entries by myself.
For some of us - - That’s the way it is.
Bathtub!
People drowned in tubs! should we not take a bath ALONE??
Worry warts
It’s simple:
- Use your brain, don’t try anything outside your abilities.
- Remember that insignificant looking bits of white water can be more dangerous than you think.
If you forget about rivers and just play around in lakes, you can’t go wrong; unless you’re a complete moron.
Evil clubs…
> 1. your local club sucks
I’m member of a couple of kayak clubs and we only accept new members once a year. Not because we’re evil but because it means less work for the instructors. All work is done by volunteers.
Beginners will typically have to paddle 50km under guidance and demonstrate basic rescue and swimming skills before they get a key to the club.
More than 50% of all new members leave within a year. Kayaking wasn’t their thing.
The clubs spend(waste) a lot of energy on these people. If we had to offer (free) instruction year round, we wouldn’t have any instructors.
/Peter
The wet exit thing
– Last Updated: Jun-27-07 7:54 AM EST –
Just saw all the stuff above that wasn't there yesterday - goodness.
Daggermat, very much what I was thinking. Having just gone thru the capsize with helmet and body parts bouncing off of rocks, it can cause a wet exit very fast even when someone should have the ability to roll. It did for me the first time. Tho' once exited, in Class 1 or 2 the worst problem for the paddler is generally lack of dignity.
However, there is the issue of boat and paddle going down the river, and hanging onto them while they do, and trying to swim the whole assembly over into an eddy to empty out the boat and re-enter. I found myself unable to do that without help in class 2 - I needed a tow to get tucked into a place by a rock and someone to get out of their boat and water-walk over to help haul the boat to shore. I was holding to everything OK as long as I just sat there, but equipment was going to go downriver if I tried to move.
That is one reason I suggested non-moving water for basic skills work alone for carney2, at least for the time being. Even taking away all the safety concerns, it'd be a real hit on paddling pleasure to have to walk a few miles downstream and find that the boat is heading to the next state or is full of water and jammed up against a rock somewhere that you can't possibly get to for hours, or at all.
this is what you said:
“Don’t people think before they post?”
Do you think that is a way to have civil conversation with strangers?
Forgive me, the rest of you, but njkayaker, this is why people take issue with you. You make some good points but you’re the first to discount other opinions.
whew…
took me a while to wade through THAT!
Greyak - a few words of advice…
“Don’t feed trolls…”
or
“adversus solem ne loquitor”
Everyone - have a great day and if nothing else, pour a glass of water over your head to get wet.
(however, ensure a BCU/ACA instructor is nearby)
Scott
Celia; dignity??
dignity in the whitewater world?, oh my :-). Last wednesdays ww run the water was low, so I thought I’d do some poling in my canoe. Came around a corner, audience on the rocks, still figured I’d best get seated in a hurry. Putting my pole away, I got pinned on 2 rocks, fore and aft. I’m feeling foolish, but at the same time my yakking bud flipped into 18 inches of water surrounded by rocks, so the audience got their pick of foolish paddlers to watch. Going again tonight, after all it is wednesday. 
(In)Dignity…
since Celia has now taken up ww and at the Deerfield, she’ll soon learn the meaning of “pressure” (especially for those who care what others think) running through the Gap. Guarantee of an audience of 50 or more people up above in the rip rap to watch how one does. About three different lines to get through the Gap, the most challenging being river left, catch a tiny eddy behind the boulder just before the last drop…
If you make it through upright, cheers. If you flip… Oooooh’s. If you roll up, cheers again. If you flip, swim, and do a yard sale, well… Yeah, you’ll get jeers but also help in collecting yard sale. If you flip, bash your head and gash your face or head and still roll up (seen that three times), you’re still a “hero” even though you should’ve stayed upright.
I am batting a little over 50% in getting through entirely upright. The other times, at least one roll. No gashes and no swim/yard sale yet. (knock on my wooden head). The 2 hour drive to the Gap can provide a needed adrenaline fix in the summer doldrums.
Of course, if one’s play is really serious, you’ll being seen at the class iv Dragontooth in the Dryway. Audience is smaller but the thrashing is a bit more unforgiving than the Gap.
Oh, in case someone should misread this… No, I am not advocating for newbies to run the Gap, alone or with partners (at least until you have a roll). Getting bashed around in the the last 2 drops can be hazardous to your health (if not your ego, if you are concerned with that).
sing
The GAP!!
– Last Updated: Jun-27-07 10:22 AM EST –
Yup - there are plenty of witnesses to being a fool at the Gap.
Jim and I were the only two out of our little class who didn't run the Gap on Sunday. Tho' by Sunday I was doing better, I still wasn't happy enough with my percentages on making the eddies further upstream. Don't want to try it without a very high chance of making an eddy or so up at the top. The coach thought I would have been OK (not necessarily meaning upright), but I have to believe it too.
But you are right Sing - at some point.. I really would like to get to where I am ready to try it before this season is out. I just want to feel like I have a good shot of making it mostly upright to near the bottom. The rollup after the last drop looks like a no problem.
alone again
so you want or need to go it alone… don’t feel so intimidated… but first
that local club that thinks your are too inexperienced to be a beginner… they must have a reason… and i suspect it is your own self confession… you fall over a lot and wet exit…
i have never tipped a canoe or kayak over ever!! my day is comming… my roll is non-existent, never tried it, never needed to… but i stick to class 1 and 2 and only hit a 3 once… and may never try that again… but if you are falling over in 1 or 2… c’mon… you need practice… i have a friend who likes to tell river trip stories… they always have the phrase, “… and then we flipped it.” somewhere in there… so i would not take him on a WW river…
but then i see other’s advising you to NEVER try stuff alone… they may be instructors promoting their craft, even if not with their service… and some people never try anything without some sort of instruction or certification… mommy must have held their hands until age 50 or so…
but you need to decide what type of person you are… if intimidated by new exposure or confused about available instruction, it makes sense to seek help… but it sounds like your practice plan has a lot going for it to me…
i have a friend who will never attempt anything without instruction and eventually certification… she is very accomplished as far as certificates go… that does not mean she is the most skilled person i paddle with… she learned in school to align your boat with waves and wakes at 90 degrees… getting across a lake with her will take you days… she turns and turns and hits all the waves just right… while she is out there zig zagging, i am already at camp with tent set up, fire started, food cooking, etc… i just leave my hips loose and paddle… except for extreme breakers… how did i learn that?.. i pay attention to what i am doing and what my boat is doing and what the water is doing… i remember and practice until my body knows without thought of each corrective action… all by myself… i have no certificates to hang on the wall, just a dry boat inside, a comfortable confidence in myself and equipment, what else do you need?
my certified friend cringes when i do not hold my paddle at exactly the “right” places, do not hit the eddy at exactly the correct angle, my elbows may not be perfectly aligned with the stars and polar coordinates… blah blah… there IS an exact method to produce the greatest control effects with the least effort and least chance of endangering yourself and your gear… and you should seek that information and practice it… but do not feel compelled or intimidated by professional instruction… you can handle MOST things yourself if you believe in yourself…
that said, i would look for pro instruction if planning a class 4 or greater for sure…
try to keep the smooth side down… practice your roll under your controlled conditions as you had planned… you might also practice not falling over in front of fellow paddlers… ;)) … that will most likely get you back in the club…
yet I stand by that statement
– Last Updated: Jun-27-07 11:56 AM EST –
If we're being told the truth. Which is also what I said.
One thought about clubs: if the objective is to form an exclusive group of people to paddle together, hey, that's fine, as long as the understanding is transparent. If there's an implication that you are stewards of the sport and encourage beginners to join, well, the time and financial expense comes with the territory. Telling someone interested in learning that they're not suited for the "beginner series" and giving them no other option strikes me as poor stewardship and indicates a hole in the clubs mission. Maybe an understanding with an instructor so you can refer beginners to them - and they can refer potential club members back to you. See how it can work for you?
My point of posting this is to make some club members think about how they can encourage newbies. Even some direction for this guy would have been better than what he said he got, and I don't like that. If my initial thought about clubs was a bit caustic, I can accept that (but my comments that followed were based on my own personal experiences just the same).
never tipped.
– Last Updated: Jun-27-07 12:34 PM EST –
Man. I went a couple years like that, then figured maybe things were getting boring. This year I picked up a skinny OC-1, and made myself a pole. Been over 6 or 7 times this year, yet I feel like I'm getting more experience than last year.Fortunately all the dumps in big water involved having at least one friend to lend a hand if needed, and I was able to help a couple friends out as well. No dignity, but no shame ;-).
“self indulgent diversions”
“self indulgent diversions”
Very much so! You are so very self centered!<br />
Go pull them, I don’t care.
Nice work!
Nice work!
Much the same advice I gave
Much of the advice is the same as I gave.
http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1295323
Done.
Your turn.
Yeah
No swimming, no learning is the common phrase. And I am one who tends to stay upright, but if I start to push it that changes. Though the enthusiasm with which some coaches seem to seek the swimming part can be unnerving…