self centered
That’s hilarious.
Count your posts. Better yet, count your posts before greyak and I pulled ours.
You’re one opinion. Other opinions are equally valid.
Ah…the memories…
of many a swim in ww. Folks can get in trouble even in a class 2 rapid. I was paddling with a group earlier this year (back when we had water in our rivers and before the drought really hit) and a friend flipped and bonked her head. She was disorientated and it took her awhile to wet exit. Even though she was wearing a helmet, she suffered a mild concussion. As you can imagine, she was shaken and we showed her each line and looked after her until we got her off the river. Thankfully, she was fine and very appreciative of our help.
Yes, finally. Victory is mine!
Thanks for pulling them.
you do not HAVE to reply
– Last Updated: Jun-28-07 3:58 PM EST –
I would not have posted so much unless you numb-nuts had any ability to not keep making your dopey comments.
Yet you and greyak could not help yourselves!
At least you did not descend into ad-hominem attacks and insults like greyak.
It was quite easy sending both of you off the deep end! Maybe, you'll both avoid taking the bait so quickly.
(I have no problem with sing. We disagree a bit but that's OK.)
neither do you
– Last Updated: Jun-28-07 4:02 PM EST –
or perhaps you do.
Tell me, who spent more time in this thread: me, greyak, or you? And forgive me, but I thought it was about helping carney (although I had my suspicions about you. Thanks for confirming them with this and your victory cry below).
Also: Tell me who cast the first insult. Never mind. You did by asking if honestly doesn't anyone think before they post?
Here's your ball back. Have a nice day. Hope to meet you again when you grow up.
More insults
– Last Updated: Jul-02-07 4:39 PM EST –
Anyway, what supposed insult are you talking about?
I do believe suggesting that it is OK for an unknown beginner paddler to paddle WW alone is evidence that people are posting without thinking about the ramifications of what they post. That's a criticism not an insult. I do believe that the posters here are capable of thinking.
"Tell me, who spent more time in this thread"
So, there are rules about time limits too?
"I thought it was about helping carney"
I pointed out how people gave potentially dangerous advice to carney and I got attacked for doing so. I suggested places near him and I got attacked for doing so. Your attacks weren't any help but it's OK for you to make them?
"Thanks for confirming them with this and your victory cry below)."
I guess you have no sense of humour either!
"Hope to meet you again when you grow up"
More name calling but no argument.
Yet, I wasn't so embarrased by my posts that I had to delete them!
Yup
– Last Updated: Jul-02-07 5:11 PM EST –
That is what I said and I stand by it.
It might have been a bit blunt but it is not an insult. And in light of the rabid ad-hominem attacks this inspired, it might well have been better to phrase it differently.
I did not say people were incapable of thinking. Nor, do I believe they are incapable of thinking.
====>>> Suggesting that it is OK for an unknown beginner paddler to paddle WW alone is -evidence- that people are posting without thinking about the ramifications of what they post.
"Do you think that is a way to have civil conversation with strangers?"
Given your compulsion to issue insults, this is certainly the pot calling the kettle black!
At least, this comment is an argument (I don't have a problem with it). Of course, you chose to issue insults before making this point. Why make the insults?
And if it is not "civil", I'd rather protect people from dangerous advice than worry about the inconsequential "risk" of violating some arbitrary standard of "civility".
"You make some good points but you're the first to discount other opinions"
So, you do not tolerate a difference of opinion?
"this is why people take issue with you"
-Two- people took "issue" with me by ad-homimen attacks (not arguments). Anyway, I had a polite discussion with the person whose post I made that comment in reply.
And again, there's that double standard: I'm not allowed to take "issue" with anybody!
Feel free to produce an -argument- if you take "issue" with me. (But I prefer you restrain from ad-hominem attacks.)
More lesson?
I’m surprised no one mentioned it. Have you consider taking more instruction lessons such as a roll class (or two)?
Once you get a roll, even a flat water roll, it’s hard for any self-important club “leader” to say no for you to join in their “beginer” trip.
Paid instructions have other benefits as well. When I started paddling, I was in an area without club nor runnable river (Long Island). I ended up hanging with my “class-mates” from the instrution classes and drive up to VT to do rivers there!!!
How much do you really love paddling? 
It is your life
I started paddling alone and still love to paddle although I only paddle 4-7 days a week. Many (even here) are critical of my style. I don’t paddle with groups. Groups paddle with me.
Assess the risk. Your life is in your hands so don’t depend on someone to be there to get you out should you get into trouble. Even a great paddler or rescuerer might not be able to save you in time.
Set you own standards if you chose to and remember the first paddler didn’t have a coach. If you set your mind to a goal you can accomplish it. Be wise, use good judgement, be safe and have a great time on the water.
Richard
Multiple times
Lessons/instruction where mentioned multiple times. He’s in a good geographic location for such stuff.
Coaches
– Last Updated: Jul-03-07 11:11 AM EST –
"It is your life"
If you are not married, don't have kids...
"remember the first paddler didn't have a coach"
It's quite possible that that "first paddler" killed himself too.
It's nice that now we have a choice. It might be more efficient to learn from experience than doing all by yourself. Why, if there are opportunities to learn from other people, wouldn't people do so? Human culture and development is due to the transmission of information from person to person.
"Your life is in your hands so don't depend on someone to be there to get you out should you get into trouble."
It is very important to be able to rely on yourself. As much as possible, other people are there for backup. Of course, it can take a fair amount of experience to be able to rescue yourself effectively.
"Even a great paddler or rescuerer might not be able to save you in time."
The real question is whether it is better to have people around or not. The point of having other people around isn't to guarantee being rescued (such a guarantee can't be made), but it does increase your odds significantly.
(Of course, the prior post is yet another example of some one of indeterminite "expertise" advising a complete stranger who is a beginner to paddle some unknown place alone.)
Try a whitewater clinic!
Think about taking one of the excellent residential whitewater clinics available. Most of them last 2 to 5 days, and you’ll learn much much faster than on your own. PLus you might find good people to paddle with, if you choose one in your region.
If you google “whitewater kayak clinics” you’ll come up with lots of possibilities. North American River RUnners in West Virginia is famous, but there are others closer to your home.
Not quite true
– Last Updated: Jul-03-07 12:35 PM EST –
The above paddler is a very experienced paddler who offered his opinion to another who has some experience, with basic knowledge from professional instructions received yet lacks skill through practice. This paddler also understands his lack of skill and appears to be aware of the risks and consequences in his description of such. By his words he lacks only experience.
Reading his words carefully one would be inclined to believe that this person is seeking encouragement to go out and practice alone. My comments were words of encouragement for someone who has common sense and wisdom enough to write the comments.
In my opinion I believe this person has the ability and desire to become an exceptional paddler. Hopefully he will continue the sport and not become distraught with those who are unwilling to be of assistance.
If he was In Atlanta I would be glad to paddle with him.
I learned to paddle alone and resent those who try and "over" protect the sport.
Yes, this sport can be dangerous but the paddler is the one who decides what he can or cannot paddle and assumes the risk. I agree that it is easier to learn from others but it is not the only way to learn.
Again I say, enjoy paddling and paddle safely.
njkayaker you offer sound advice but you are to overprotective and we aren't children here? Your quote "I do believe that the posters here are capable of thinking." may get you lots of nasty remarks. Who do you think you are??????????
Evaluation
– Last Updated: Jul-03-07 1:29 PM EST –
"a very experienced paddler" ("advice" provider, in reality, some random net dude)
Exactly, how does one determine this? As far as I can tell, every body here is just some random net dude.
"who has some experience" (orignal poster, a beginner by his own estimation).
People never exaggerate on the 'net!
"Reading his words carefully", you'd note his self-evaluation of his skill is very low.
"Yes, this sport can be dangerous but the paddler is the one who decides what he can or cannot paddle and assumes the risk."
Of course, it's the paddler's decision. It would also be his decision to go play in traffic. People have the right to make good and bad decisions.
"I agree that it is easier to learn from others but it is not the only way to learn."
I never said it was the only way. The "easier" attribute is enough to encourage it, though.
"you are to[o] overprotective"
I'm not telling him to do or not do anything. "Overprotective" is an opinion. "Underprotective" (eg, your advice) is another one.
"someone who has common sense and wisdom enough"
This is a guess. He's a beginner. How much "wisdom" do beginners typically have? Anyway, you have no idea where he wants to paddle alone.
It is quite possible that some one with the appropriate experience who has actually observed him might be able to make a reasonable recommendation to paddle alone. Us "random net dudes" can't do that!
& you need to go paddle!!!
You spend too much time dissecting sentences into word phrases which taken out of context nake no sense.
Go paddle.
The original poster is smart enough to make his own decision after reading and ignore you as I will.
Context
– Last Updated: Jul-03-07 3:53 PM EST –
Your original post is just above it. So nothing is "out of context".
"Go paddle." Except, I'm stuck at work. Why is it that people give advice that they don't take themselves?
Holiday tomorrow
Sorry you have to work. I’m home planning group trips for tomorrow and a 32 mile paddle Saturday,
You can’t be working too hard, reading and posting to P.net. but at least you are getting paid. I’m glad one of us is.
Enjoy your next time on the water.
Richard
Likewise
"Enjoy your next time on the water."
Likewise.
Where?
I must be reading challenged. I didn’t read anything about MORE classes.
hehehe
"It is quite possible that some one with the appropriate experience who has actually observed him might be able to make a reasonable recommendation to paddle alone. Us “random net dudes” can’t do that!"
Absolutely untrue. We “random net dudes” can recommend whatever we like. It’s up to the reader to follow or not. It’s NOT the job of another “random net dudes” to judge whether those recommendation is appropriate or not.
Well, you can object as you wish. Aren’t going to stop the rest to give whatever appropriete or inappropriate advice. Get a life. Better yet, get another job so you can go paddling instead of typing.