Paddling speed - perception vs. reality (and 'thick' water?)

OK, looks like the 2nd edition from 2004 - it gets outstanding reviews on Amazon, sounds like a common reference used by many.

The first author is a competitive canoeist and lawyer. The second author is the owner of the publishing company and author of fitness books.

Heed clearly writes with authority about technique, but that doesn’t equate to mastery of technical terminology. In this case, he’s conflating planing with surfing, a common error. Another is conflating cavitation with ventilation. Neither are a big deal, but it’s worthwhile using terms correctly since it enhances communication rather than confusing it.

I think it comes down to semantics vs practiced technique. The bickering seems to be more about the word choices. I’ll leave that up to others. This has been discussed here in the past and seems to end up this same way before. It’s no question a thing, we’ve been doing it for years. I’ll be out practicing sprinting the shallows. If we still call it that…

One last comment when it comes to extraordinary paddling performance. I watched a very tall athletic gentleman who was and maybe still is a Winonah–Current Designs representative take off in a canoe. This guy could make that canoe literally jump out of the water and I don’t know whether his velocity was planing, or what, but it was the fastest I have ever seen a human being single handedly move his craft. That is other than a kayak equipped with hydrofoils.

Whatever the “magic word for when the boat moves higher in the water as it goes faster” it seems that higher end boats recreational type do more of it. On boats with rounder hulls you don’t feel it as much, it seems to be felt on some of the lighter, “nicer” or higher end flatter hull boats. So say the better rec or borderline sea/touring boats do it the most.

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None of this stuff matters…I’m always paddling into the wind. I’ll paddle into it to set myself up for an easy cruise, and it will change direction as soon as I turn. It’s the paddling equivalent of walking to school uphill in the snow, both ways. :rofl:

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Planing is continuous not a intermittent raising and dropping.

Planing is the mode of operation for a waterborne craft in which its weight is predominantly supported by hydrodynamic lift, rather than hydrostatic lift. Many forms of marine transport make use of planing, including fast ferries, racing boats, floatplanes, flying boats, and seaplanes.

There’s more to getting your outboard boat up on a plane than simply pushing the throttle forward. … As more power (and speed) is applied, lift increases, and the boat, in effect, rides over its bow wave, reducing wetted area and thus reducing drag. At this point, the boat is said to be " on a plane " or simply “planing.”

Our racing canoes are also generally flat bottomed and allow this “magic word” to be fairly well sustained through shallows with a combination of forward trim, paddle thrust and water depth.

That’s a nice canoe. It looks like you can be really weak to get it in and out of the water but REALLY strong to get it to its “feels like paddling in rubber cement” feel. It must weigh not much more than 20lbs and have a very high top speed!

I agree that paddling with current can give the perception of slowness because the paddle is moving WITH the water flow. Also, visual perception is skewed due to more effort when paddling into the wind, as someone else noted.

I’ll add a third perception factor: If you work against either current or wind on the first half of an out-and-back route, your body could just be getting a bit tired coming back, even though current or wind is in your favor! This is where using a GPS watch every outing helps. I might keep it off when warming up but after that, it stays on. I usually divide an outing into segments so that I can briefly stop and view the data against my perceptions.

The GPS watch revealed that if I start off by meticulously focusing on technique (using a specific drill), my speed is higher both then and for the rest of the outing. It sets up muscle memory to start right instead of wandering into it 10 or 15 minutes later.

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There are so many factors involved in both actual speed (short term) and perception of the “thickness” of water you’re paddling through that I think its hard to be very objective.

Ever try to paddle downstream fast on a river, like if you’re trying to catch up to someone or get to a landing a few miles away when the weather looks a bit iffy, and cross a strong eddy line without turning in? Like when you’re pulling hard on a paddle with the current at your back and suddenly you’re pulling hard against an temporary upstream current? If you’re not expecting it there’s suddenly much less resistance on the paddle… Like the water suddenly turned “thinner”. Its pretty easy to wobble a canoe doing that if you’re inexperienced and not expecting it. Feels like pushing on a bicycle peddle and it just drops down a gear without your input. But its a just a perception - I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that equal volumes of water taken from either side of that eddy line weigh the same. There’s no difference in density. The water isn’t thinner, but it feels that way.

Shallows can do that too… ever notice that if you’re just cruising along nicely, paddle, glide, paddle, glide and you hit shallows? Lake or river, current or not, suddenly the glide just gets cut in half. If you’ve got a full load of camping stuff your momentum can carry the freight train on for a bit, but soon there’s a noticeable difference.
I’m not a racer but I’ve known and paddled with a few. They make serious study of such things. Pay heed to what they say, they usually know that of which they speak. I’ve observed that the words “suck water” sometimes leap unbidden to their lips on such occasions.

A level of plane thought, perhaps development, that was planted in my brain long ago by someone who used to post here was that a wake was a three dimensional thing - a moving (non-planing) displacement craft (canoe of kayak among others) displaces water downward as well as parting it to the sides where we can see it. The faster the boat is moving the greater the wake (though as I understand it the angle of the wake is constant - no matter the speed or the shape of the boat… odd, eh?) When that downward vector of the wake hits a shallow bottom and reflects back against the hull the density is actually a bit greater under the boat. “Thicker” water is the perception. (Feels more like a coasting on a bicycle on pavement and hitting a patch of mud - the coast gets bogged down a bit.) But perhaps that’s all just an idea planted in my head, a level of thought that may or may not be indicative of actual reality. A meme I’ve just propagated… Perhaps there’s a better explanation for the slowing that is real enough.
Whatever the reason, I still prefer to paddle in a little deeper water where I can get in a decent paddle stroke.

On a few occasions on lakes I’ve noticed, and not consistently, that not all my paddle strokes feel as though they’re meeting equal resistance. Its a bit like the eddy crossing situation but more regular and far more subtle. It feels like the water is thicker, then thinner, then thicker, etc. It was a perception I took to be a misperception until I learned about Langmuir currents.
It seems that wind on a lake can produce shallow (depth of epiliminion) circular currents. Visualize a series of pairs of big horizontal rolls of carpet rolling in opposite directions. Lines of foam form where the currents sink. We’ve all seen those, right? When paddling across them at a right angle they can sometimes be felt on a paddle.

Of course when paddling some distance from a shore where there are fewer ready points of reference it can feel like you’re paddling and paddling and paddling but not getting there. But that really is a misperception. (reason tatters in ice petal flowers revolving)

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The effect is not due to increased density of the water under the boat in shallow water, but the limitation in how water is displaced as the craft moves forward.
In deep water, water displaces in four directions: left, right, down, forward. The water displaced downward is ultimately dispersed left, right, forward, and backward. As the depth of the water approaches the draft of the boat, the displacement downward is limited and, at the limit when the boat is in near contact with the bottom the entirety of the displaced water moves left, right, or forward. Constraining the direction of displacement for a fixed volume of water results in a higher required force or more required time, just as it takes more time to pour a gallon of water through a funnel than into a bucket.
In addition to this effect, as a boat moves forward it is dragging water along with its wetted surface. As this dragging water contacts the fixed bed of the body of water additional resistance to motion results.

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Reason tatters in ice petal flowers revolving? I enjoy paddling physics and philosophy but you lost me.

He was quoting lyrics from my handle

Dark star crashes, pouring its light into ashes
Reason tatters, the forces tear loose from the axis
Searchlight casting for faults in the clouds of delusion
Shall we go, you and I while we can
Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?

Mirror shatters in formless reflections of matter
Glass hand dissolving in ice, petal flowers revolving
Lady in velvet recedes in the nights of good-bye
Shall we go, you and I while we can
Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?

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Well, I added that as an afterthought and misquoted - its been a long time… guess I should have reviewed it before I added.
And thanks to pbailey for illuminating one of those faults in the clouds of delusion. His is the better explanation of the cause of the effect…

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Plasma brightly blazing, rearranging, energy always changing night and day.
What’s the meaning when we light on love and life’s ephemeral flight to history.
Living in delusion, settled for illusion, transforming the confusion is our way.
Paddling in awe, when we allow the self to pause, and observe the cosmic mystery.

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Maintaining my stroke rate gets harder and harder as the water gets shallower. Noticeable at 2 foot depth and downright onerous by the time its so shallow that the paddle hits the bottom.

As far as going up versus down stream, it may be my cloud of delusion but the same stroke rate seems easier to maintain when I turn around and go down stream. Dunno if its real or not. There could be dynamics where the bottom layer of water is just accelerated laminar flow when going downstream whereas when you go upstream you are sort of reversing it and creating wasteful turbulence.

That’s a good point about the dynamics of the water near the bottom playing into this. Trying to go fast over a bottom of boulders in a current where one is passing over or through all sorts of subsurface cross currents and roiling currents is different from paddling fast over a more nearly laminar flowing sand bottom. The saving grace for racers is that everybody is going through about the same water.

Ever notice how some haystacks are more periodic than others? Perhaps I’m mistaken about this, but it suggests to me that the interplay of the currents causing them are periodic as well - and those are just the currents we can see, Surely we’re sinking our paddles in similar currents that don’t result in visible haystacks but can be felt through the actions of the boat and the resistance we feel on each paddle stroke. I suspect through long habit we may have come to not pay them much attention. I don’t. I just paddle through and deal with it. But just because I’ve grown to not perceive it doesn’t mean it isn’t there and might be noticeable if I paid more attention to that particular detail.

I’ve no doubt that the techniques that racers have adapted for getting through stuff like this as fast as possible are an effective long term optimization of many individual strokes. But there’s a reason that fluid dynamics is a topic that chaos theoreticians are drawn to. There’s some chaotic stuff going on down there and we must be sticking our paddles in it with some regularity. Of course those dynamics must be transmitted, however subtly, as variations in the resistance each individual paddle stroke meets as we paddle through it, even if it isn’t onerously shallow water. Thicker and thinner water…

Frankly, when paddling in current through strewn boulder waters, even if the boulders I’m paddling over are deeply submerged, I’m always paying a lot more attention to lining up and plotting a course through the next shallows or maintaining a desired heading than I am to how much resistance each paddle stroke is encountering. Next time I’m paddling such waters I think I’ll try to be more observant, more perceptive. Its not like I have anything better to do. Consciousness is a desirable thing, right?

Of course, that may just be inviting a biased perception. I could convince myself of something I might be feeling.
We’ve often heard the saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.” There can be instances when “I’ll see it when I believe it” is more the case. The observation may capture a physical reality but its dancing close to observational error. Corroboration is desirable, a little peer review in order. As “expert” as it may sound to confidently make definitive statements about matters of perception, of thickness or thinness, especially about of such things as inherently chaotic as flowing water, I think a statistician’s view of the phenomenon, graphed with error lines, might be in order. A grain of salt.

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I think you just said perception is often subjective, rather than quantitative, but with much more nuance.

This will be a bit off topic, but I think might be of interest anyway.

I spent many years honing my skill as an “instinctive” archer. I know it isn’t truly instinctive, but a learned action. What instinctive in this case doesn’t mean is being born with the innate ability, but is implying that the action becomes automatic without having to think about it. I think that is what we do after years of paddling. In fact thinking consciously about each act is a much slower response than the reaction of well honed neural pathways called muscle memory.

I found this next bit rather mind blowing. We have a direct connection of our vison to an area of the brain that doesn’t connect to our consciousness. A study of a man who lost his vison due to strokes killing the areas that processed vison on the conscious level. His eyes were fully functional. He did not realize that he was avoiding walking into things because his eyes were still sending information to this other area of the brain. His conscious mind was blind, but his body still responded to his eyes without him being aware of it. Also being able to sense faces and the emotional singles of the face such as anger and joy. without any conscious connection. It is called blindsight.

I bring this up because I think the muscle memory aspect of the nature of how the paddle feels in the water is often below the conscious level too. Or perhaps I am being an “ultracrepidarian”.

I needed an excuse to use that word anyway. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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