I think steens meant…
swim first, boat later…
Can’t learn to walk, before you learn to crawl sort of thing…
I know what was meant.
I just couldn’t resist.
g2d?
I think cousin was more concerned with how she would structure her own time during the Holiday weekend.
The “luggage” is just coming along for the ride.
Yeah…
Sometimes he makes it easy.
But man, can that dude paddle fast…
I was hoping that th OP
would have enough common sense to wait until the human child would be big enough to fit in a PFD made for a human child.
You seem to lack that bit of insight.
Discovery II Infant PFD
by LL Bean, fits kids 8-30 pounds. That would be pretty much all infants.
I am not advocating - I’m just saying it’s out there.
Long ago there was a type 1
PFD for infants.
It was the horsecollar kind that is guaranteed to float you face up.
Type II is not good enough “probably will float you face up”
We cant find that type 1 anymore. Our kids started day tripping (lying in the bottom between Moms knees) at six months wearing the PFD. By the age of 3 they were on week long canoe trips in the BWCA etc.
Now the PFDs are kind of iffy and we waited with our grandkids till they were old enough to enjoy dabbling their hands in the water…about two.
Our five year old is now enjoying double blading his own boat.
Hey “Expert” from the Poconos…
This is just crazy. Tell them NO and make it stick. Anything else you tell them, since you’ve identified yourself as the “Expert,” is a disaster waiting to happen.
You are going to be very glad you asked this board after you think about it for a while.
PFD?
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 12:37 PM EST –
Is there a pfd for a 4 month old child?
Non issue in my opinion.
The purpose of taking a 4 month old child canoeing,or kayaking would be what?
The benefit for the 4 month old child would be what?
"What happens to a 4 month old child, with or without a pfd, if/when the boat capsizes"?
Just imagine some of the possible scenarios.
The parents justification if the child is injured or killed would be what?
No well reasoned justification comes to my mind.
BOB
well I am wondering what
native hunting and rice gathering parties did in the past…they took their kids with them!
Shouldnt we get more excited about parents who dont wear their PFDs while the kids have theirs on?
How can you help a kid when you are not prepared?
Paddling with someone
…who has a 4 month old in a kayak/canoe makes you just as guilty so if something happens I wouldn’t come to p’net for your defense. We’re gonna furnish the rope.
Paddlin’ on
Richard
Are you guys insaine?
If the kid cannot fend for his or her self with a PDF on without aid from an adult they shouldn’t be in the yak or canoe with you. You cannot count on them floating around and sticking still with no issues while youfirst get the boat upright, water out, and get yourself into the boat safely so you can try and go grab your crying wiggling kid that could have been hit in the head falling out of the boat. I can’t see any kid less than 4 years old(around that age) getting into a boat and being able to fend for themselves if something were to happen.
You are no longer putting yourself in an increased risk scenario, you are putting your child in it. If someone wants to go without a lifejacket knwoing their abilities and level of risk they are able to take I don’t care. But when you put a child in a lose lose situation it says way too much about you.
If your cousin is dumb enough to even consider taking a 4 month old on the water in his/her boat then maybe a darwan needs to made up prematurally?
I’m not trying to be mean, but this is just nuts. I can’t believe anyone would think that “as long as the child is floating upright” is enough to consider it safe. There is SOOO much more involved with the situation than making sure the kid doesn’t drown if in the water. A PFD does not protect against bumps, weather, and other boats.
Who cares…
the child shouldn’t be in the boat anyways. Native hunter and gatherers did a lot of stupid stuff. I’m not going to use them as a referance as to what is safe and what is not.
Exactly…
That is a HUGE false sense of security. There is NOTHING safe about a 4 month old baby “floating in the water.”
Bingo…
That’s your personal judgement call,
but as you see, there is quite a range of opinion. Here in the SE, serious paddlers often start taking their kids on easy whitewater when the kids are old enough to stand or sit securely in the boat and to fit with a proper pfd. As one such paddler, I see no reason to honor your estimation of risk and reward over my own.
I would totally…
agree with you on YOUR risk levels shouldn’t be condemned by anyone else. But when it comes to another persons safety, one who cannot think for themselves?
There is a difference between personnel risk and putting you children in harms way. As a society we have laws against child endangerment because it no longer involves just you but another life. This, IMO, should be considered just that.
But U.S. society does not set risk
levels for young children in most recreational situations. We have a ridiculously wide latitude, which is why this whole thread is not a search for THE STANDARD, but a comparison by different people of their different standards. You are pushing for a high level of caution. I have been through the kids-in-canoes thing already, and have seen many others go through it, and I can only say that the actual risk of harm does not seem to be high enough to justify your level of concern.
Specifically, I was editor of Georgia Canoeing Association’s newsletter for 12 years, and I have read every issue of that newsletter for another 12 years, and there just have not been ANY reports in the club of kids drowning or near-drowning, of kids breaking limbs while around the river, of kids chopped up by boat props, or getting majorly hypothermic, etc. And there are many families in this area who have taken small children on canoeing ventures.
So far, American society is leaving it up to parents to decide whether little kids can go canoeing. I’m not sure that we would be better off if government stuck its nose into this issue.
Stuff him in the hatch
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 2:17 PM EST –
A four month old would fit neatly in one of the hatches in a sea kayak -- of course you'd want to have a good hatch cover if you plan to do any rolling so the kid won't fall out. Since many hatches leak, you would probably want to put him inside a dry bag, too, unless you wanted to hear a wet baby crying all day. If he gets a little damp, you can pop him in the microwave to dry off. If kept dry enough, the kid could probably keep himself entertained while stuffed in the hatch by playing with the shiny tools in your repair kit.
The fact that your cousin has to ask someone else for advice on this topic almost certainly means he lacks the paddling skills to be able to do it safely. I think the age it would be appropriate to take out a kid is a function of the type of boat, the conditions, the skill of the adult, the size of the kid, and the presence of a PFD on both the adult and child.
Boating can be great for kids, even very young ones. My earliest memory is napping in the shade under the console of my father's power boat on the ocean during a sunny and calm summer day. A 16 foot moter boat is very different from any paddlecraft when it comes to that, though.
so off the mark
There are by your definition alot of adults who shouldnt be in a boat either!
They havent practiced putting the PFD on in the water. They say they can but push them, they cant.
They are the ones who never have the PFD’s on.
BTW babies are right at home in the water. Of course the adult and baby should be wearing a PFD and if you have sound judgment you know to stick close to shore and not even get close to your personal comfort limit.
Sunburn however is the greatest hazard as you shouldnt sunblock an infant.
Doesnt anyone take their infant floating in the lake with a PFD? Just at the beach?