risk homeostasis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_homeostasis
Brandishing
That is called brandishing and is highly illegal. You had the option of reporting him to the police and they take it very seriously. You do not point/aim a firearm at anyone unless they are a direct threat. Standing in a road is not a threat.
thanks
for the support. I didn’t realize it was highly illegal. I thought of reporting him because it freaked me out that someone would aim a high powered rifle at me when I’m out walking my dog. I walked him twice a day and it was a nice subdivision of Charleston. Apparently the dog barking at my old lab was enough for him to grab his rifle and take aim at me for standing dead center in the middle of the road for less than a minute while my dog caught up.
I could also think of a some situations where a gun would be helpful. But even then it would be way down the list of gear that would protect me.
I grew up hunting so I’m not against firearms.
I was just saying so far I haven’t felt the need to carry one as we don’t seem to have problem areas.
That’s the theory
The slugs have a higher chance at a CNS shot from further away, while the the 00 shot will be more devastating very close range. With an 18" bbl even 00 shot isn’t going to do much to dissuade a charging large brown bear outside of 30’ or so. There is more than one account of fairly sizable rifle (and pistol) rounds bouncing off of bear skulls. Bears are built with extremely dense bone structure, which combined with sheer mass of the animal is why you need a veritable canon of a weapon to reliably bring one down (especially if it is charging you and you hope to live).
Regarding “Deliverance,” we have
had problems with drunks recreating along the rivers in Georgia. In one instance, some drunks tied a couple of sober guys to a tree. I’m sure the victims were hoping Burt Reynolds would come by with his bow and arrow.
Protection with a firearm
I learned to use firearms when I was about 8. For twenty years I carried guns as and AF policeman. I hunt. I’m quite comfortable carrying a firearm and long ago determined when and how one needs to be used. I’m fifty three and have always traveled in the woods and on the water. I have never hada bad encounter with a bear. Other people have, doesn’t mean I won’t. I have had bad encounters with humans and a good number of other people have also. Mountain lion sightings are rare but they have and do attack humans. I have been attacked by loose dogs, etc etc. I travel prepared. That means that I may have a form of first aid kit, a knife, a fire starter, sometimes a way to call for help, etc etc and sometimes a firearm. Those that are anti firearm will po po the threats, tell you you are parinoid, well you,ve read some of the previous responses. I say you do what makes you comfortable. Find a reputable gun club in your area and talk to them. Make sure that you understand the laws of the land you are going to travel through. Don’t ask those questions here, people give out the wrong info on a regular basis. Don’t carry a firearm if you don’t have training. Sometimes it is helpful to contact law enforcement agencies in the area of travel to discuss local threats (human and animal). I may never have to use a firearm for protection of any kind although it’s been close with humans more than once. If I ever need to use one there’s a good chance I’ll have one. It often just gives me a good feeling to know that I can take care of myself and thats all that maters to me.
I have to agree with g2d here
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 12:50 AM EST –
I'm single and free as a bird which has made it easy to spend a pretty substational portion of my life hiking, camping, or boating. I also know quite a few people who are also about as active in the outdoors as their free time allows, and among the group of us, I couldn't begin to estimate the number of people*days spent in the bush. Still, no one I know has EVER encountered a person out there who did anything that appeared threatening, much less threatenting in actual fact. We run into a few rude and drunk rednecks perhaps, and a few whom we felt more comfortable walking away from than talking with, but dangerous? Never. I'm convinced we are in FAR more danger every time we drive to the grocery store or to work, but does that mean we go to great lengths to insure we have the safest car money can buy? Most of us are also in more danger from other people every time we take a walk in the evening in our own town, but does that stop us from going out? So WHY then, feel this compelling need to carry firearms in the bush for "protection"? Bears, I understand, but "crazys"? If you want to be "prepared for everything", by all means go ahead and take a gun with you, but seriously, take a good hard look at all that you do -- I'd be willing to bet that there are a bunch of potential sources of much greater risk to your safety, as evaluated by probability, which you haven't adequately prepared yourself for or taken substantial steps to deal with to the degree you do by carrying a gun for defense, and therefore I see this as an emotional problem, a skewing of reality on the part of the person who "needs" a gun. In plain English, that means carry a gun if you want, but don't "act" or "talk" as if the threat you are prepared for is just as likely as all the other dangerous things that can happen out there which you have NOT thought about preparing for. It's just a matter of logical reasoning regarding risk, that's all.
guideboat,
Have you read all the posts carefully top to bottom?
I read a lot of them, …
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 1:18 AM EST –
... and I agree with most of them, but apparently you were unable to figure out that my post was not directed at all those other remarks. In agreeing with g2d's analysis of relative risk, and also in the spirit of the question posed by the original poster, I'm simply saying it seems illogical to go to great length and expense to "prepare" for something that represents a miniscule danger in the grand scheme of things if you think of all the other stuff that can go wrong. Sure, you yourself say you don't carry your gun for "protection", but you did say that ignoring the crazys is simply sticking your head in the sand, so would you deny that the thought of self-protection is in your head? I don't care if you think that way. All I'm saying is that statistically, there are much greater risks out there, even though most of those "greater" risks are already so miniscule that we are perfectly comfortable ignoring them.
I'm not sure there was much point to responding just now. I only said the same thing I already did.
Oh, that’s a good point too.
How many people realize that the single most effective way to save lives and prevent serious injury in this country would be to make everybody wear a helmet when driving their car? The effectiveness of doing so would be unfathomable - many orders of magnitude greater than any other single method of defending or protecting ourselves that we can come up with - yet who among us would do it?
Everything we do is a “calculated risk”. I’d carry guns for protection while traveling on a yacht (yeah, that’ll be the day) because it would be such an easy precaution and it COULD be a life-saver, but anywhere else, the inconvenience of “packing” would make me decide not to, just like I don’t wear a helmet when I drive my car but a WHOLE LOT less risky.
Yep. I work with a guy that happened to
The guy who pointed the gun at him is STILL in jail.
carry?
Yes, I carry a double barreled derringer in my kayak. It’s always in there, but no one has ever seen it. If on a camping trip there is usually a .45 auto in my pack. One of the folks I camp with also usually has a .45 with him. Neither one has ever been out of our packs while camping, but they are there if needed.
Incidently, it’s not crittters that concern me. Through numerous bear encounter, I’ve only ever seen one that acted anywhere near aggressivly (even let one come up and sniff me once time, but that’s a story for another time).
Two legged predetors are much more unpredictable.
IF you choose
to carry, I recommend a Glock 29 10mm. Very concealable while camping/kayaking and lots of firepower. A firearm does you no good if it is left at home because it is too big and bulky to carry. Certainly, not the best round for Griz but not something I have to worry about here in the mountains of VA. I concur with the post that recommends training. Carrying, is a huge responsibility. Knowing if/when/how to defend yourself is crucial. Make sure you understand that BEFORE you do. Laws also vary from state to state. Make sure you know the laws of the state you are in. Chances are you will go a lifetime and never need to defend yourself. However, all it takes is once.
If I know you are carrying,I’m not
paddling with you.
Well,
I notice some of you say you are worried about loose dogs. That’s something pepper spray can handle. You shouldn’t be shotting a gun because a dog is barking at you.
Finally, the OP hasn’t even gotten a kayak, hasn’t taken classes and some of you seem to think haveing a gun is high priority while kayaking. She said to exclued bears, but many of you included bears.
So this has turned into a thread about carrying a gun for protection at all times and not about a specific trip or carrying one only when you kayak in certain areas.
I agree that this should be at a gun forum.
Death Hunt
See Death Hunt staring Charlie Bronson as trapper Albert Johnson. Scene where the real ‘mad trapper’ gets invited into a campfire and is super friendly until he pulls his gun and kills the two other guys and pulls the gold fillings from their teeth.
Guess it is not much different than computer dating.
Reverse Inference
I once saw a drunk guy driving a pickup.
Them pickup drivers is all drunks …
Yes, guideboat
There are greater risks, statiscally speaking, than coming across crazies in the bush, terms that g2d came up with in this thread.
Personally, I think I do a pretty good job of comprehensively being safety concious at most times about most things, just to put you at ease as doing so has been woven in to me for the past 20+ years with the work I do and various off the job pursuits like sea kayaking and mountaineering.
I am not particularly overconcerned about protection in the bush and if you look closely, even though I’ve had numberous run-ins with bears and wolves I haven’t told anyone to ‘go get a gun’! If we were to have a conversation about safe kayaking (many of my posts over the years on this board, no less and I’m on the safety committee in my local club and give public presentations concering sea kayaking safety) or wearing your seatbelt or not getting drunk (and driving, or doing anything else for that matter), you would see the same real life examples come out from me (I witness the results of unwise, unsafe behavior first hand every day at work) of why or why not to do certain things. So, to put you at ease, I’m not just concerned about the ‘bush’, and your great leap of assumption that I am is ridiculous. You do remember what assuming does? ass-u-me? Unless you are another ‘expert’ as was g2d and can diagnose from afar, as apparently he can as well. Are you a mental health professional as well?
No, guideboat, it was clear to me that your post was very personally directed to me, I was just hoping that by reading, and getting a comprehensive view of the remarks in this thread, your sentiments and perspective might be tempered somewhat. Apparently not.
As far as folk that carry a gun having an emotional problem–wow, what a statement and amazing judgement from an apparent all-knowing individual. You show me someone that doesn’t haven an emotional problem of some type and I’ll show you someone who isn’t human. That certainly sounds like a statement I would expect from the so called ‘educated liberal elite’ that are better than the rest of us and have life all figured out. Having a gun for protection, if properly used and trained for and abiding by the laws, often is someone actively taking steps to be able to enjoy life to the fullest and giving themselves a last resort option if the need ever arose. If this is an emotional problem, then I want that emotional problem.
Good grief, Charlie Brown. This is my last post to you as well.
Well, now this is getting too extreme
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Please stop trying to make this worse than it is. It is now perfectly clear to me that you either can't read or WON'T try, since you referred to something I said in this way:
You said "As far as folk that carry a gun having an emotional problem..." which demonstates that you missed the point completely!!!
But, I'll try once more.
There are plenty of responsible and decent people who carry guns. All I ever intended to say is that g2d, and plenty of others who have posted here too, are NOT off-base or "wrong" by saying the risk of being endangered by another person when out in the woods is small enough that one does not NEED to worry about it. You said he was wrong by saying that, I said he was correct, and that's as far as it goes (by the way, talking about reading skills again, he never said anything to warrant your interpretation that there are NO dangerous people in the woods, only that the risk is greater elsewhere so why be so concerned). All the other stuff about risk that I mentioned was provided as background as to WHY the risk of being attacked by another person in the woods can logically be ignored. So yes, I do believe that anyone who actually believes the dangers from other people in the woods which "might" (not "can", as clearly understood by the person who said a gun would have been a poor method of protection from the drunks that attacked that group in the BWCA) be solved by carrying a gun are significant in comparison to the risk of breaking a leg, drowning or 100s of other things, is deluding themselves. Based on your latest post, that does not include you. Based on your specific denial that g2d had a valid point, it does include you. Take your pick.
In short, I have NO problem with people carrying guns for defense against other people in the woods. It's only when those same folks tell me how "important" it is to be ready for such dangers (the same thing as saying that a statement that the danger is tiny is wrong), that they are demonstrating faulty reasoning and skewed logic.
Of course, such a statement would carry a lot more credibility if spoken as the person lights up their 5th cigarette of the day! :)
reasoning regarding risk
Well, when estimating risk you need to look at both probabliity and severity, decide what you’re comfortable with, and balance the costs of corrective actions. In the automotive world it’s an FMEA(Failure Modes and Effects Analysis). You focus on the most probable failures, but you can’t ignore low-probability events if the consequences are severe enough.
I agree with your basic premise – that perceived risks are often wildly different from actual risks as measured by statistical data, and that often drives irrational behavior. Parents who worry about their child being kidnapped but who don’t use car seats would be one example.
But you could understand that meeting a violent criminal was a very low probability, and still make a rational choice that the possible severity of the outcome justified being prepared to defend yourself.