Really? This wasn’t that long ago:
http://www.atikokanprogress.ca/articles/959/1/Six-Ely-men-charged-in-Basswood-shooting-spree/Page1.html
Hmmm
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 11:06 AM EST –
"what about protection from looters and crazy people..I was wanting to know what kind of protection other people use and if a firearm what kind and what kind of permit do you need??"
Looks like the OP, who suspiciously has not further commented on a thread that they started, is asking about protection and firearms, to me. Nothing is said about dogs gone wild. This reeks of one of our regular pnetters with yet another nom de plume.
Bear spray, great to have! However, I'd suggest you take a small trash can, line it w/a garbage bag and fill it up w/water. Keep the hose running, you're gonna need it. Then, have a friend shoot you square in the face w/the spray so you'll know and remember the excruciating and debilitating pain it will cause when you go to spray an animal and the wind blows some of it right back at you. Oh, it -will- happen.
Then, have your friend put on their angry face and barrel towards you as you try and fight them off, blind, because your eyes have slammed shut, burning and in so much pain that you try to gouge your eyeballs out and eat one of them. Now, go stumble your way towards that water filled trash can and shove your head all the way down to the bottom so many times that you swear you can breathe underwater.
Later on that night, you simply -must- relive this wonderful experience by taking a shower and having that little bit of capsicum, that you didn't get out of your hair, and that's now mixed w/hot water, flow gently down your entire body and over your privates sending pulsating waves of pain and blindness over you that you involuntarily scream "What fresh hell is this!" so loud, your neighbors think someone is being savagely murdered. What fun!
Welcome to the world of OC pepper spray, my friends. Been there, had to do it, and got 10 effin copies of that qual letter all over this house, so no one "accidentally" loses the one in my training record. Just like firearms, you need to how know to use spray and all the consequinces that come with it. And like a firearm, it's not just point and shoot.
Yes! That is stated perfectly.
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 11:23 AM EST –
That's the kind of reasoning I was illustrating in my post below about wearing helmets while driving or riding as compared to carrying a gun. Notice from that post that there are potential situations where I wouldn't find carrying a gun for defense to be too much trouble to be "worth it" as balanced against the very tiny risk but severe danger in the event that risk became real. By the same token, if someone ELSE doesn't mind the hassle and responsibility of carrying a gun in situations were I wouldn't consider it, I have no problem with that, and never meant to make it sound that way.
Gosh, that sounds fun…
When our police decided to start carrying Tasers I was impressed that every officer volunteered to take a shot as part of training. It wasn’t required. as an EMT I was invited to watch and practice removing the probes. It appeared to be almost as pleasant as your description of pepper spray.
You might be “crazy”…
… if you let some stranger get close enough to you in the brush to take the gun away from you, or shoot at “something” making noise in the brush.
“They act friendly though a bit odd, get to talking with you and next thing you know they’ve grabbed the gun you had to protect you from the crazies and have it aimed at your head. Then there’s the dumb friend of yours that thinks it’s funny to pretend to be a bear behind a bush and so you blow your friend away (I know, get smarter friends).”
Tom
That is why I carry a lightening rod
While the chance of being struck by lightening is low, the result of a strike would be catastrophic. So, when I’m walking outdoors I always tow behind me a little red wagon with a lightening rod attached. Also, when I need to cross a street, I put on a set of hockey pads. While the chance of being hit in the crosswalk is relatively low, it would really mess up my day, so I want to be prepared. I also won’t even think of getting on an airline flight without my own parachute. You just never know, do you?
The only time I’ve felt the need to carry a gun is when I’m on my way to a target range with friends for an afternoon of fun. A gun can be an entertaining thing to use on a target range or hunting, and a useful tool for certain professionals, nothing more. Unless you are in the military or law enforcement, live in Somalia or need to hunt for subsistence, it is nothing more than a toy, just like a canoe or kayak. For some, either a canoe, kayak or a gun can also be a fashion accessory, which is really just another type of toy.
People would do better to admit that carrying a gun is just a fun hobby that you are fully capable of doing safely than torturing logic to explain why a gun is necessary. It hurts your credibility.
depending on where you live
The probability of being a victim of violent crime is MUCH higher than the probability of being hit by lightning. You can easily find the numbers to verify that.
“OO” Buck
OO Buck is what I sell a ton of for coyote hunting. I personally would never use it or recomend it’s use on a bear. The pellet size is around .30 cal and typically has around 9 pellets. Velocity will generally be in the 1300 fps range. A standard 12ga/3" slug (Slugger) throws a 1 oz hunk of lead around 1760fps with a muzzle energy of 3005 ft lbs! With bears, bigger is always better.
FYI, a Remington 870 Express is the same gun as the more pricey models but you aren’t paying for the better finishes.
Tom
Gun or No Gun
I think the reason someone decides to carry may be based on their personal experiences in life. I grew up on Chicago’s SW Side and living there became pretty “rough”. You learn fast to defend yourself from as many dangers as possible. Frequently it turned out to be a threat of bodily harm upon myself or my family. Producing a firearm stopped every incident happily without ever firing a shot. 5 seperate times I had to let someone know that they needed to go elsewhere, no easy target here. My wife had to make it be known that she was not going to be robbed/raped/ or who knows what only once. Our eyes are open to what evil is in the hearts of some and it is now second nature to posess the ability to protect ourselves.
It would be interesting to know just how many people who are against the use of guns have ever been victims of violent crime.
Now we live in a state (WI) where crime is way in the back of our minds. We still have the means to protect ourselves though. Last year, while paddle camping in northern WI, we heard of some nut shooting and killing swimmers at close range over our transistor radio. It sure was comforting to know that we were protected.
Tom
Good point
about the pepper spray. I thought of carrying it in the event of a gator but realized it would blow back in my face. I’m not here to think for people. I had a canister of regular pepper spray but never used it a misplaced it somewhere. The only reason I got it was for dogs at the beach. Their owners are right there but they let their dogs attack at joggers. I don’t want to spray one but I don’t like them attacking me either.
Someone else mentioned living in Chicago. My cousin used to cary a 357 when she lived there… however that isn’t going kayaking.
I think kayaking is low risk. I would try and camp at places that prohibit firearms. If not you would get all kinds of drunk crazies out there and without any respect for kayakers or campers.
I would suggest talking with authorities and finding out if the area you plan to launch and kayak is safe.
If it’s a high use area, you are going to be sharing the boat ramps and parking lot with all kinds of other boaters.
Twice
I was robbed at gunpoint once. A year later I was assaulted at fistpoint. In each of those cases my own gun would not have helped. There was no way I was going to “out draw” the guy who had pointed his gun at me before I even saw it. In the assault, I was suckerpunched and knocked down before I even saw the guy whose girlfriend I had been talking to. I was so pissed that if I had a gun I probably would have shot the guy after the fact and that wouldn’t have worked out well for either of us.
Exactly.
re:Express (no)
The express is full of plastic and MIM where it shouldn’t be, especially for a dangerous game, personal defense, or duty firearm.
There are big differences aside from the finish type.
Police 870
Horse of a different color and not readily available to the public.
Tom
You were not protected, that incident
was on the border of Wisconsin and Michigan in the UP. The shooter had a high powered rifle and was shooting down at swimmers in the river. The fact is that your/my concealed weapon is not likely to be used in our defense against a premeditated attack. Early in this thread there was mention of Ted Bundy. A skilled psychopath will wait for the opportunity to strike when defense is unlikely. I have a CWP and totally support the legal carrying of firearms. I would prefer to be surrounded by people carrying guns, it makes me feel better/safer. I just don’t want to be the one carrying because I usually do not want to be on guard, higher alert, more cautious, whatever you want to call it. I would prefer to carry in the wilderness for protection from animals, but not from humans. Animals, with the exception of mountain lions, usually give you some advance warning. Humans, if they mean to do you harm will usually get the drop on you. Please carry if you want to and I pray you will protect me if you do as I would do this for you, but let’s be realistic here, if a human wants to harm you it will whether you are armed or not. Unless you plan on being on a state of alert that would make life unpleasant, at least for me. Bill
Express/plastic?
I don’t pretend to be all knowing but would appreciate it if you could point out the parts that are plastic on the Express grade vs the Wingmaster grade, current production.
“The express is full of plastic and MIM where it shouldn’t be, especially for a dangerous game, personal defense, or duty firearm.
There are big differences aside from the finish type.”
When in my area take a peek in the police cruisers and see what they are carrying. You will see many of the 870 Express Synthetic model 25077’s. I know because I sold them to them.
Tom
string,
A firearm is a tool that should only be properly used for very specific situations. As with most tools, it is not a fix-all. Far from it as if it’s not used properly or at the right time, it will cause more heartache, most likely. A firearm will not fix very many and is not intended to fix very many, nor do most folks believe it will fix very many perceived or real personal security threats. There are times when it may be appropriate to use a firearm, but hopefully they are few and far between.
I’m getting the idea that you have a different perspective. Am I correct? Others may have equally different, but valid perspectives base on life experiences, etc. Wouldn’t you agree? I hope you still believe that others that may have the right to disagree with your assessment have the right and should have the right to use a firearm lawfully and responsibly.
Why don’t you just come out and fully espouse your philosphy rather than taking potshots on this thread, as it appears you are doing? It appears you are following it and have a strong opinion. Tell us what your opinion/perspective is based upon so we can all hopefully come to a fuller understanding of this issue.
Postscript
I do carry, but only when I feel I need to. When I place myself in a situation that has a higher chance of presenting a threat. When I carry I am in a completely different mindset, one that hopefully will allow me time to make a good decision. Bill