Back Up
Fistpoint shouldn’t even be included in this thread unless you are shooting to protect your life. You don’t blow someone away because you got punched. Wise decision on your part to not carry. Also wise to not try to be a pistolero and do anything but comply to someone who has a gun pointed at you.
One thing is for certain in that each situation calls for a different set of actions. I wouldn’t dare tell anyone else that because of my experiences/feelings they should not do what they feel is necessary to protect themselves. It’s a personal choice.
Tom
UP/WI
The radio report we heard was that the shooter unknown was still at large and an exact location was not given. He also shot them at close range as in talking distance. We were on a remote island campsite by ourselves. I can hit a 6" target at 100yds with a handgun. We were protected…
Let’s see, in the tent there is a flashlight in case it gets dark, sleeping bag in case I get cold, soap in case I start stinking, an axe by the firewood, PFD in the canoe, and what’s that in my kit, oh yeah my handgun. Just one more tool is all. No heightened sense of awareness unless something hits the tent wall in the middle of the night.
Tom
Assault is a violent crime
The question he asked is whether any of us have ever been the victim of violent crime. The blood on the floor than night proved that I was. Thank God I didn’t have a gun that night because the blood on the floor also meant I was too pissed off to think clearly.
6" at 100 yards, with a concealed
carry gun? Reliably hit 6"@ 100 yards with carry gun?I am sorry to be so sceptical, but this like everything else I say here is my opinion. In your tent asleep at night is not a time I would expect you to be at a heightened alert, that is why a bad guy is going to get the drop on you. A bear might make some noise or smell so bad that you wake up,the Ted Bundy types not so much. As for the swimmers, close up or far away, do you swim with your gun? Even if you did, you stand no chance against a scoped hunting rifle with a hand gun when you are out in the open, regardless of your shooting ability. Please remember, I want you to carry legally and support your right. I am stating why I usually choose not to and that carrying more often is not going to stop a premeditated human attack. Bill
Lethal force
I have been in more fistfights than I can count and while I am pro gun, I never once thought of using a gun to stop the fight. I broke both hands while defending myself against 6 or 7 gangbangers that jumped us back in the day and no gunplay was involved. They weren’t trying to kill me although it may have looked like it at the time. A gun won’t solve everything.
Without going into all the details of when I chose to protect with a firearm, 3 incidents of attempted home invasion, 1 robbery attempt, and 1 car jacking.
Tom
As good as it gets.
FE you are a prophet! 100+
Tom
so noone
here has used a handgun in defense while kayaking or canoing?
Has has someone been attacked while kayaking and a gun saved them?
I’ll bet more people have been in car wrecks they could have avoided.
I could see keeping a handgun in a bag for more remote boat ramps, but at the same time, you have to admit that if an area is open to target shooting, then your main threat is going to be other drunks with guns.
My personal preference is to let the police do their job, and it’s my job to call them and let them know the place isn’t safe.
I could see carrying a handgun in your bag if you think it’s a remote boat ramp area at higher risk. But, like someone said, it would be an absolute dire situation.
So far eveyone at the boat ramps and boaters have been the nicest people I encounter.
But maybe one day some crack heads will be there in their car right when I’m returning, and having a handgun might be useful, after telling them to stay away and that I’m calling police.
For me it’s not worth it right now. I’m thinking people that afraid just sit around the house all the time getting fat, and take one or two trips alone to some remote place in their camper where they are sitting ducks.
I have never heard of swimmers, campers, or boaters being shot at around these parts. The chance of that happening is so remote that you are at greater risk shotting yourself.
I think this thread is more about personal ego on the internet, but that’s just my openion.
I work in the television news business
and in my 33 years of covering stories I’ve run into enough that destroyed my sense of security when in the bush. I won’t go into details, and I don’t travel the bush armed, and I’ve never personally experienced a bad time when off the job, but I won’t criticize someone who chooses to carry protection.
6"
I don’t mean to sound like I’m beatin you up or anything, just making my points. I have always been blessed with the ability to shoot a handgun well. While many people believe that someone can’t shoot a handgun all that accurately it can be done. If you can shoot well at 25yds, you can shoot well at 100yds. All the same principles are involved, only your mistakes are amplified. Note that I didn’t say I could do it all day long or every shot, but when I do my part I can break clay birds set on the backstop 3-4 times out of 6 with a S&W 4" 586 using 158gr JHP reloads of my own making. If you find that tough to swallow look up what Elmer Keith used to do with his .44mag.
Tom
You can hit a 6-inch target at 100 yards
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 5:11 PM EST –
....with a handgun? I'd have to see that. Now, if you can hit it at some point after firing a couple boxes of ammo, I believe you, but consistently? I don't believe there's a handgun that can shoot a six-inch group when clamped in a vice, let alone hand-held. We don't live that far apart. I'd love it if you could show me this someday. Believe it or not, I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong about this.
Oh, I see your answer about this to the other poster so no need to say it twice. I sure would like to see just how close you can come to accomplishing that though!
Link regarding ammo selection…
…and the minimums I listed above for black bear are listed near the end of the article. I would classify these as absolutely bare minimums for a large bear, especially considering the difference between a worked up or aggressive bear and one that your may be hunting that perhaps doesn’t know you are there. Stopping a charging bear is completely difference than hunting one. And, again, the only ammo that meet these minimums in the .40 S&W round that I have seen, (I certainly don’t claim to be an expert) is the Double Tap ammo with link mentioned above. A more powerful round is likely in order if you are in an area where bears have been a known problem. The .40 S&W is just a great combination of power and packability that would be adequate for most situations, likely even with a bear with the ammo linked to above, that’s all.
http://www.foggymountain.com/handgun-bear-hunting.shtml
As to the intent of the dealing with bears by the OP, it originally appeared to me that they were meaning to be asking about bears outside of AK and black bears have documented presence in all 50 states, as I recall from documentation.
At any rate, it certainly doesn’t hurt to be aware of bear issues. Black bears cause more injuries and death to people than all the rest of the bear species combined. As the above article states, “…famed wildlife expert Leonard Lee Rue III: ‘Black bears cause more deaths and injuries to people each year than all the other bears combined.’” So, whether the OP realized it or not, bears in places other than AK are something to consider.
Now those that like to apply statistics and probablities to these situations can start their calculations.
Tom, if you say you can do it that is
good enough for me, but I have to say I am **ck*ng AMAZED!!! Elmer Keith! Hell I was there! (the name of his book). I am a decent shot, you are obviously bordering freakish, and Elmer was a freak. None of this of course changes a word I said. If you are swimming(kayaking, sleeping, whatever), gun or not, you are not likely to defend yourself against a premeditaed attack. Bill
Islanders
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 6:09 PM EST –
No offense, but what the hell are you talking about? Where did you get the notion that anyone who chooses to carry a weapon is somehow the most insecure, paranoid, gun weilding, fat, mega-ego'd, trigger happy nuisense to society, whose likely to kill everything that moves if they it doesn't agree with them or they're having a bad hair day?
Carrying isn't some random decision like whether you should wear the tan or gray slacks to the office today. No amount of explaining on an internet chat board is going to convey or summarize why folks choose to carry or not carry. It's a personal decision and like many decisions made, a personal one, made for different reasons.
Sometimes I carry, sometimes I don't, depends on the who, what, when, where, how and why. I'm a woman. 98% of my time is spent paddling alone, most of that in rural counties and unless there's a salmon run, quiet, out of the way, put-ins. Do I think that I'm going to be attacked by every person out there? No. Do I sleep with my weapon under my pillow? No. Am I constantly looking over my shoulder at everyone that approaches me? No. However, by your logic, if I'm ever attacked, I'm supossed to get the crap beat out of me and sexually assaulted (and we all know that this will inevidably happen).
Folks who go through the time, paperwork, fees and process of getting a CHL/CWP aren't some crazy shoot 'em up cowboy. These folks are law abiding citizens who were extensively screened to get that permit and have taken instruction on how to avoid situations and the potential consequences of those situations, if you should find yourself in one, on both themselves and others.
From being in the gun biz
the majority of the difference between the lower and higher end 870’s and 11’s are mostly finish and lumber. The receivers and moving parts are interchangeable although more attention is given to polishing and engraving and the like. The only mode that allegedly had a higher quality rreceiver was the Magnum.
The plastic stocks sold on the express models are not the same quality as the nylon ones found on the law enforvement models though, they would not take the punnishment.
I hope you are joking about that …
… movie having any relevance here. First off, somebody already asked you if your assessment of this kind of risk is based on watching television. Second, those two guys in the movie would have ended up being just as dead if they had been carrying guns (oh wait a minute, they WERE carrying guns), because they were taken totally by surprise. In such a situation the only way to avoid that outcome would be to shoot first and ask questions later, and for nearly all cases like that, the logical consequences were also already mentioned to you (using different words).
I would just be surprised to see that movie brought up here for any reason that might have been intended to make sense.
More 6"
I swear it isn’t really a great achievement and I suspect that many who are good shots just need to give it a try. I never thought I could do it until I read about the truly amazing shooting by the developer of the .44 mag cartridge, Elmer Keith. Now that man could shoot! I don’t practice like I used to (1000 rds a month or more) and I do not have those handguns anymore so I won’t be able to back up my claims. They were sold to support my canoe habit but I bet I could still do it.
In my case, I can hit smaller targets much more accurately than large. Put up an 8" target and I will shoot 4" at 25yds. Put pop cans out at the same range and I would shoot 6 out of 6. Keep in mind that some days I will have it and some days not. It requires a clear mind and perfect shooting form. I also would not shoot from a bench so to speak. I am a terrible shot from a rest?? I would simply stand behind the bench and lean into it for support.
I am not trying to BS anyone here as I have nothing to prove and don’t really care if I am believed or not to be honest. My wife and most of my kids have seen how I shoot and that’s good enough for me.
GBG, if you know where we can borrow a nice S&W 586 or 686 with 4" or 6" barrel I would be happy to take a shot at it. I still have all my reloading equipment to make up my favorite loads.
Tom
Bill
I hope I never have to find out if I am right or not! 
Tom
Sadly
my penis hasn’t grown one bit since I started packing my Glock 29 10mm. I was so hoping that it would. Whether someone can shoot 6" groups with a handgun at 100 yards or shoot a flea off a camels ass at a thousand, really isn’t the point. It is about the right to choose. Too often we get caught up in the politics of guns and lose sight of what I believe, is a God given right of all men to self defense. What the odds are of something happening, is irrelevant.All it takes is once in a lifetime. As I stated previously, with that choice comes huge responsibility. I much prefer to live in a country that allows me to make that decision.
I think several of you
need to reread my post. I said that could see carrying a gun for protection in some situations. I gave a very clear example of how it would be possible for someone at a boat landing could use it for self defense.
So how is that me being the extreme anti gun person?
You have twisted that around to your own distorted perception.
I have repeatedly said that I think kayaking is low risk. That is my personal opinion and I don’t need to ask your permission to post it.
However, for me, I am so active that carrying a gun would limit my exercise. I run and ride a bike and am in much greater threat doing both those than kayaking. If I had to carry a gun around I would be less active.
I think there is some truth to that.
If you think you need one for protection than carry it.
That is your decision.
Like I said the only time I could see it being useful would be returning to the boat landing. But for me, so many people approach me and ask about kayaking that a gun in my bag would be useless. It would another 2 extra pounds I would have to haul up the boat ramp.
Also, the fact is that the more people who get out and enjoy healthy exercise such as riding a bike, kayaking, and running the less crime there is.
I get out everyday and enjoy life and other people. I’m as kind and considerate to other people. That’s more than I can say for some of you.
Like I said
not one single person has needed a gun to defend themselves when kayaking. I’m saying that varrifies my assessment that kayaking is low risk. I don’t care if you carry a gun. If you have something to say, then say it. I’m here to exchange information.
Notice how no one responded to my statement that places where firearms are allowed their greatest threat would be other drunks with guns? Instead you resort to a personal attack out of context.
I see most of these post as people with a big ego looking for someone to latch onto… no wonder I don’t post on the internet much…
I’m kind of surprised so that so many paddlers carry guns, but in my opinion, the people who carry spend more time on PNet being inconsiderate to other people than they do paddling.
So, I don’t think the gun issue will resolved any time soon, so I’m back out of here for now!