Might be …
…“I think this thread is more about personal ego on the internet, but that’s just my openion.”
Not sure where that fits in but…
Yes, once in Yellowstone Nat Park I had a grizzly sniff at me through the tent wall, repeatedly circling our tent. My Dad and his hopelessly tiny .38 were the only thing between the bear and me but I don’t think the gun mattered at all with that brute of a bear. A second time being out on a logging trail after dark with 1 or possibly 2 wolves just off the trail who were giving ME all their attention. But I did have my Buck knife at the ready. Quite inadequate defense in both cases.
Tom
Yep
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 8:00 PM EST –
"Also, the fact is that the more people who get out and enjoy healthy exercise such as riding a bike, kayaking, and running the less crime there is."
Absolutely in agreement. Although, some of us don't run because well, running just sucks. ;)
One thing to point out. Yes, this is a paddling forum, but folks who legally carry don't just carry when paddling. And the majority of folks in the US do not paddle. There is more to life than just paddling. So, when someone makes the choice to carry, it's not based on the paddling factor alone, it's the whole picture. When I was asked to give the required written statement on why I was applying for a CHL, I didn't say, "because I'm a paddler."
Few things
Like plastic trigger group, and a MIM extractor which I just cannot tolerate to recommend in a dangerous game weapon.
I know that MIM is here to stay, but I don’t like it. The Express is pretty full of it, Wingmaster has none of it (unless that has changed since I looked).
Running???
Those of us who carry guns have no need to run!
JUST KIDDING FOLKS…
Tom
Questions:
– Last Updated: Feb-26-09 10:23 PM EST –
What's a "plastic trigger group"? I've never heard of such a thing. What's an "MIM extractor"? Never heard of that either, but then, I'm not a gun enthusiast.
For what it's worth, I have two 870 Express shotguns, and neither one of them has a single plastic part. They are a few years old, though. The wood is not as nicely engraved as the more-expensive model, but I didn't buy them to look at.
Oh, and why do you say a plastic stock "won't take the punishment"? Are you suggesting it's going to break? It's a shotgun, not a war club. We all know that plastic boats are the strongest you can buy, so other than the obvious esthetic issue, why not use plastic in economy shotgun stocks? If you think it's going to break, maybe you've been watching too many shotguns being used in the movies (where they are as powerful as small military cannons). In real life, a stock doesn't need to be very strong. Most plastics are a whole lot stronger than wood, and wood has always been strong enough, right? So, I'm not following your logic.
MIM
MIM is metal injection molding. Several years ago many firearm manufacturers starting using parts made in this way in their lower end products to reduce cost. They are weaker than forged or milled parts, even stamped parts, and should not be relied upon in high stress applications like an extractor.
If you’re shooting at ducks and your extractor snaps, no harm no fowl (har har). If you’re shooting at a bear that is charging at you and your extractor snaps, you are up sh!t creek.
I never said anything about the stocks, I have no issue with them.
Thanks
Okay. Seems like a similar issue as years ago when stamped metal started replacing milled parts to make guns cheaper.
Yes, and I see it was a different person who commented on the plastic stocks.
gbg , it’s true …
– Last Updated: Feb-28-09 6:23 PM EST –
...... although a 4" barrel is not nearly as predictable at 100-120 yds. as 6" or longer .
An 8" Python rarely misses at those distances !! ... same with the S&W 629 Classic , a fantastic .44 mag.
You ever see the backstrap of a revolver get cut more than 1/2 way through ?? ... we've wasted several because of this .
All day long with a 6" barrel in .357 , but .44 mag has enough left to be useful at those distances .
1000's of tin can hits has testified to you here . A tin can takes up about 1/10 of the front fixed broad site ... the very small target is what makes it easy to do (also knowing your own revolver and loads) , same as the ol nail head driving with a rifle ... the smaller your target the easier to refine accuracy .
The shear fun of it is what causes the backstraps to be cut so badly !!
Off hand rapid fire and emptying the cylinder at a tin can 100-120 yds. out , you may hit it once or twice , but even the misses are within 6" of the can and the dirt flying up knocks it all over the place .
actually allsky7 , it is exactly …
– Last Updated: Feb-27-09 7:54 AM EST –
..... the point !!
You and your penis Glock are perverted in the sense of what firearms are all about . First and foremost they are about precise target shooting , after that everything else is simply optional .
The optional part is an ethical question only ... falls into the same catagory as , hitting someone in the head with a base ball bat or jambing a 6" blade into them ... a matter of ethics not firearm use .
Carrying is a personal decision
and one that must be considered carefully, knowledgeably and respectfully. It is my choice, my life and my own business, regardless of anyone’s opinions. It is for my protection and my loved ones and is my responsibility to be the protector and not the victim. Most likely noone will ever know and that is the way it should be. I will be trained well so it will be another safe tool to me and this choice is entirely mine.
In Reality
We also have a full time gunsmith and the 870 is not very prone to breakage. Sure they come in for repair as they are just another manufactured item but they are all quite dependable. I will have to remember to bring up the cheapening of parts with our gunsmith and see what he thinks.
Tom
6" groups with a handgun at 100 yards
isn’t unrealistic with alot of handguns. When I use to shoot in I.H.M.S.A. meets I have seen many people of all ages shoot really tight groups out to 200 meters with handguns all the time. Check out this website to see what I mean. http://www.ihmsa.org/
Police officers are armed to the teeth.
How many get shot when the bad guys get serious about it? I would guess most of them.
Between your guessing and the potshots
…you are taking without any substantive dialogue, you’re making quite a name for yourself. Why don’t you personally pose your question to a police officer? Several of them would be better and you’ll get a better answer than from a single officer and than you will here and then you won’t have to guess as much. I work closely with quite a few officers, in fact dealt with several last night during a little incident at 1am as they were doing their best to keep the peace. I’m sure that any of them would be happy to share their perspective with you–whatever it may be.
You’re taking more (pot)shots than any of the horrible, stupid gun owners on this site that you seem to like to put down. What propaganda machine has brainwashed you? If you have some difficult personal experiences, etc. that are at the root of your thought processes about this issue, let’s hear them so that we can all learn more about this issue.
Did you get enough help with your question about sex? Where did it go? Or, did a certain someone suggest that it would be better in a different location?
Crazy people/animals
Im sure i speak for a lot of people when i say that i dont want to carry a firearm to KILL people and just be violent I just want to make sure that i can be in control of any situation that could get bad ie. your at your camp and someone decides they want to rob you which happens all over america i dont care where your from and with the econ the way it is…problems are and will get worse…and also wild animals…I understand you work with alot of crazy people but its not even medical issues…theres people around the world that arent friendly wave when the see ya down the road kinda people. Im not sure if where i am going to be kayaking is such a bad area but you are wrong if you dont think BAD people dont go to good places…not trying to get on anyones case but i dont think its being to paranoid or anything to carry a gun in a place where anything could happen anyone agree
agree with just
I agree…i dont think its wrong to carry when bad things happen in good places too good people all the time…I live in a pretty good town and my house has been robbed twice and my father had to fight off a guy…and things could of got worse thank god they didnt but if the guy pulled out a gun i would rather be the guy that already had one pointed not the guy who had to lay down with his tail between his legs…that being said i dont wish harm to anyone i just rather have a better option for protection than (curled up ball approach)
I have been a gun owner for 45 years.
– Last Updated: Feb-27-09 3:13 PM EST –
It is my own observation that guns for self protection are a false sense of security. They are far more likely to be stolen or 'accidentally' kill a family member than they are to protect one.
My dad was a cop for 40 years and I have always been glad he was never involved in a shooting.
My son-in-law is a deputy sheriff and has been for 10 years. In that time, there have been 3 deputies shot:One while struggling with a guy he was trying to arrest;it was the deputy's gun;l by another deputy shooting at an alleged bad guy, and another by a guy who was laying on the ground,surrounded by 5 deputies.
I get really sick of immature and/ or frightened people buying weapons they have no clue how to use and no training.And the NRA doing everything they can to spread the paranoia so outraged gun owners can get their panties in a wad.Get a life!
As for the sex post, you gun freaks have no sense of humor.
PS. I was a gun freak at 15. Grow up ; I did!
OK…there it is. Thank you!
“It is my own observation that guns for self protection are a false sense of security.”
They certainly can be if one is not trained and carefully thinking through the consequences.
“They are far more likely to be stolen or ‘accidentally’ kill a family member than they are to protect one.”
That sounds like it’s straight from the Brady Center. They want to reduce gun violence, as does everybody, it’s just that their methods of doing so restrict greatly my right to own a handgun for self-defense.
Consider the following statistics:
Firearm Safety Summary
Along with a steady increase in the U.S. population and a larger increase in the number of privately owned firearms in the United States, the annual number and per capita rate of accidental deaths involving firearms have decreased steadily for decades.
The U.S. population is at an all-time high of about 300 million, and rises about one percent per year. The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high of 250+ million, and rises about two percent per year.
The annual number of accidental deaths involving firearms has been decreasing for decades. Since 1930, the number has decreased 75 percent, while the U.S. population has more than doubled and the number of firearms has more than quintupled. Among children, such deaths have decreased 86 percent since 1975. Today, the odds are a million to one against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.
The fatal firearm accident per capita rate has decreased 92 percent since 1904. (Since 1991, the firearm murder rate has decreased 44 percent, and the firearm suicide rate has decreased 32 percent.)
Firearms are involved in 0.7% of accidental deaths nationally. Most accidental deaths involve, or are due to, motor vehicles (37.6%), poisoning (19.6%), falls (16.3%), suffocation (4.9%), drowning (3.0%), fires (2.7%), environmental factors (2.0%), medical mistakes (1.9%), and bicycles and tricycles (0.8%). Among children, the figures are motor vehicles (42.4%), suffocation (18.7%), drowning (15.5%), fires (8.8%), bicycles and tricycles (2.3%), poisoning (1.8%), environmental factors (1.7%), falls (1.6%), firearms (1.4%), and medical mistakes (0.9%).
Voluntary firearms safety training, not government intrusion, has decreased firearms accidents. NRA firearm safety programs are conducted by more than 55,000 NRA Certified Instructors nationwide. Youngsters learn firearm safety in NRA programs offered through civic groups such as the Boy Scouts, Jaycees, the American Legion, and schools. NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe program teaches children pre-K through 6th grade that if they see a firearm without supervision, they should “STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave The Area. Tell An Adult.” Since 1988, the program has been used by 26,000 schools, civic groups, and law enforcement agencies to reach more than 21 million children.
“My dad was a cop for 40 years and I have always been glad he was never involved in a shooting.”
Hats off to your father for working to keep the peace. I hope he realizes how thankful most of us are for his service. Many of us go to work every day realizing there are potentially great risks to our safety for the sake of serving the public.
“My son-in-law is a deputy sheriff and has been for 10 years. In that time, there have been 3 deputies shot:One while struggling with a guy he was trying to arrest;it was the deputy’s gun;l by another deputy shooting at an alleged bad guy, and another by a guy who was laying on the ground,surrounded by 5 deputies.”
Very unfortunate situations. These deputies were well aware, I would think, of the potential risks of their job and work together carefully to minimize those risks. Minimize them as they could, the risks are still there. Humans being what they are…they make mistakes, don’t we all? Would it create a better situation for law enforcement overall if police and deputies were not carrying guns at all? Or, perhaps all the law abiding citizens should not be allowed to have guns and then the police wouldn’t need to carry guns as well, right? Who, then, would be left with guns in their possession?
“I get really sick of immature and/ or frightened people buying weapons they have no clue how to use and no training.”
People should definitely get good training in the operation of their firearm and in situations where it might be used, as I’ve stated before. We can certainly agree on that. As to their immaturity or other emotional state, I’ll leave that judgement to you.
“And the NRA doing everything they can to spread the paranoia so outraged gun owners can get their panties in a wad.Get a life!”
My perspective on the NRA is that it has done a tremendous good in this country. It is made up of 4 million members, myself included, that are concerned about gun safety. The NRA does a tremendous amount to train the public, LE and the military. Here’s a little info from their site: ‘Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America’s oldest civil rights and sportsmen’s group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and to advocate enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation’s leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the military.’ Wow…that sounds pretty radical to me. If folks would give the NRA half a chance, they would realize that it’s not the radical group the liberal media makes it out to be. Most of us, most of our lives, have been getting information from a decidely left leaning media machine and public school system and the limited, edited sound bites that most of us typically hear about the NRA do little justice to the issues at hand.
“As for the sex post, you gun freaks have no sense of humor.
PS. I was a gun freak at 15. Grow up ; I did!”
No, I’m not going to have much of a sense of humor when you denigrate and label those that exercise a precious freedom we have in this country. I’m still not sure what happened to your apparent attempt to derail the real discussion by diverting it.
Hmm…I was not a gun freak at 15–didn’t even have a gun in the house. But, I guess I am one now. Maybe I should change my name to the new wonderful label you’ve developed: ‘gunfreak’.
Thanks
for responding to the previous “post”! Your words are well put with good information.
And who came up with the survey?
– Last Updated: Feb-27-09 4:51 PM EST –
I didn't see an impartial entity mentioned, if such an entity exists.
I personally have known 2 families whose members were accidentally killed by other family members with firearms in the home.
I personally know noone who has prevented any incident of theft or violence with a weapon.
In my lifetime, guns have gone from just another tool around the house to objects of obsession and adoration.When I was a kid, most handguns were owned by law enforcement. The rest of us used long guns for hunting and plinking.
Then along came Lethal Weapon and the other 1000 movies glorifying handguns as the solution to all our problems.Then along came all the paramilitary weapons so we could feel like Rambo.
Like any divisive issue, this will never be solved here , or probably anywhere else.
Please show me where I have attacked or denigrated anyone.I certainly will attack your belief, but attempt not to attack the person.