okay…
I’d agree with you about the Ford Explorer…maybe a Toyota 4Runner would be a better analogy!
Matt
dont know if i would sell a sirloin
to get chopped meat…
I have seat time in a Q, camping and conditions and the 3 star assessment in one. The Q is a brilliant design–but you’ve got one so you already know the good and the very little bad. I’m currently comparing a Q and a Cetus side by side and loving the sublte differences and the major ones too. Good luck with you trip wherever you’re headed!
heheehe
nice medicineman. subltle reference to chopped mat. well done.
I paddled both and for what you are describing I would take the Q just because I woudl be bored silly with a nice safe boat after a while. I mean if you just want to get from point a to point b you could pick any boat. the Q at least has a personality and will make you smile while you are getting there. the explorer is safe (so they say) but I think this is the paddler more than any boat. The q gives you more options along the way. You have seat time in the Q which automatically makes it more comfortable and safer for you than moving over to a new boat.
Paul
just my uninformed 2 cents
(medicineman is falling over laughing now because I give him so much grief about his Q boat)
'chopped mat, well done’
my preference is toward the pink 
and I think BrazilBrazil has at least seen the Q in untoward water…I guess when it gets right down to it I would put my money/life/fun where the coaming is most apt to remain attached!
certainly…
If we all could stay loose and centered, no boat would feel tender and we would almost never capsize except with intent.
The last part of last Saturday’s paddle in beam seas and winds I was reminding myself ‘just relax’ and left my legs on the floor of the boat (remembering advice from John Carmody). Had I tensed I would have had the opportunity to fully experience my Nordlow as a 360 degree boat (it would not have been the first time).
A few years ago the Nordkapp LV would have intimidated me. Now, I am enjoying growing into it. Although, I’m not giving up my Romany or Aquanaut 
coaming is most apt to remain attached
And yes, there is that consideration…
gear and food storage
can you store enough food/water and gear in a boat like the Q with it’s super low volume and hard to pack spaces? i imagine the back deck is all but submerged when heavily laden, in lumpy water. the Impex Ass. is my tripping boat for these reasons, and for the fit, and paddling performance, but i’m on the large side… i certainly liked the Q when demo’d.
Need
to trust Your Nordkapp. The thing that makes the Nordkapp into a 360 degree boat is also what makes it shed waves from the side. They tend to flow over and around the hull with very little side slap.
Kayaks that have the flop point tend to catch side waves and boats that Balance brace very nicely also tend to have a side that is affected more by side waves.
The Nordkapps strengths are strengths designed for the purpose of handling dificult water conditions from any side with a load day after day.
A Romany or explorer is a better teaching boat and also a better rescue platform(for leading customer trips)…but if the paddler is able to be centered and relaxed under dificut conditions, then the ability of the boat to be at any angle the paddler desires without flopping one way or the other is an added feature to becoming one with the boat and it actually doing the paddlers wishes and not that of the someone that designed in the point of no return/flop point.
I believe that Tom Berg, at his skill level was probably mis-interpeded in the statement that keeps getting quoted here.
I would fully understand him deciding to paddle an Explorer for what he is doing …teaching and leading trips (rescue platform)
I would never believe that he would because he would have to watch a Nordkapp more. It does a diservice to Tom to keep saying that, He has enought skill for the Nordkapp to be a boat of choice if he were doing what the Nordkapp is designed to do. However some paddlers that would be perfectly comfortable in a Nordkapp in rough seas choose other boats as much because of availibity or sponsorships or even pro-purchase.
The new generation Nordkapps are not the same as the older version that many skilled paddlers logged countless hours in. The new generation Nordkapps are much more oriented to intermediate paddlers and just need a paddler that wishes to take advantage of the inherent design charecterists and not expect them to be something they are not and were never designed to be.
Best Wishes
Roy
and the foredeck needs to be lower
– Last Updated: May-01-08 12:18 PM EST –
:)
Just jerking your chain. I liked the nordkapp I demoed more than the explorer.
Rescue platform…
When Tom pointed to his classic Nordkapp affixed to the side of the boat house and said “I don’t paddle it anymore,” it was the opening of his response to my query about Nordkapps. He went on at some length about why he came to prefer an Explorer. Most, though maybe not all, of it had to do with his role as a coach and guide.
Indeed Tom told me that a major consideration for him is having a boat he can put a student or client in to paddle when their own boat is or becomes unsuitable for them.
The BCU system tends to focus a lot on rescues and wisely so. An Explorer is an excellent resuce platform in many ways. This is a very concrete reason why so many BCU trained coaches and paddlers choose Explorers.
Yes
The classic is a differant animal than the new generation of Nordkapp…lots of BCU training is done at Nigels place and with Nigel…soooo…guess what he supplies for his classes…and when the Helicopter comes out of the sky to do the scimulation…everybody feels sort of good in the Explorers…
Nigel has also been very generous with the suply of Explorers for paddlers that wish to paddle around something and are looking for sponsors.
But for other types of uses, and non-sponsored paddlers there are several other boats on the market that deserve looking at and the new generation of the Nordkapp is one and shouldn’t be dismissed too quickly from the running.
Best Wishes
Roy
Nigel has also been very generous
Which certainly doesn’t hurt.
I would not dismiss the Nordkapp out-of-hand. I just wouldn’t recommend one to a newbie.
Norkapps
I agree very much with Roy.
Especially the lack of primary and secodary stability on the classic models.
You bob up and down on what many would call broaching waves, waves that would catch on the stabilty.
They aren’t designed to impress people with your balance brace or hand roll, but they aren’t hard to roll either. They do excell at getting you from one place to another, with gear and in rough water with less spent energy.
Many don’t like the fact that the decks are higher than the Explorer like boats, but that is what is allowing you to carry gear for a skinny fast boat.
Wide and low means more drag in the water, although I guess a high deck means you are more likely to be blown around by wind, but I’d rather have a skinny, tall, tippy boat than a slow flat bottomed one.
I owned an Explorer for years until I tried a friends Nordkapp and realized the joy of not having so much stabilty glueing you to the water.
I still have a Standard Romany for local playboating, rolling and coaching duties, but I would probably prefer a Pintail, Nord LV or an Avocet, if someone wanted to trade:-)
stevie
Deck heights
– Last Updated: May-01-08 6:04 PM EST –
Besides volume there are reasons for higher decks than some might prefer.
Ever since taking 1.5 days of forward stroke with Ben Lawry I wish my foredecks to be somewhat higher so my knees can be higher making good posutre easier for paddling. I love my Romany as a playboat, but I more easily sit erect in my Aquanaut, and even more so in my Nordkapp LV.
Someone recently noted the issue of low rear decks catching and scooping water on edged turns. I had never thought of the resistance that could cause.
Interesting
You know, this thread has been really interesting to me. I’ve paddled an Explorer HV for several years (Hi Roy, I’m the guy with the blue one) but have only demo’ed a Nordkapp Jubilee and sat in a Q-Boat. The demo was in very slight “conditions” and I didn’t have a chance to paddle the Q-Boat, although it’s on the list. The (unloaded) Nordkapp was definitely more lively than the Explorer but not hard to get used to.
In the last couple of years at Canoecopia, it seems like Valley has had less variety on display. I can’t remember if they had a Q-Boat last year ('07) or if it was the year before, but it’s been at least a few years since I’ve seen a Pintail.
Contemporary & Classic
– Last Updated: May-02-08 4:16 AM EST –
Though often cited as the largest sea kayak manufacturer in the UK, Valley is still a rather small operation. The number of boats shipped to North America is not huge.
Most of Valley's sales are in their 'Contemporary British" line (Aquanaut, Nordkapp, Avocet.) Among the 'Classic' line (Pintail, Nordkapp Classic, Anas Acuta, Q-Boat) the Pintail and Nordkapp Classic are designated as 'Heritage' and are special order boats. The Q-Boat has always seemed a bit of a niche model. I've yet to see one on the water and I tend to see a lot of Brit boats.
I would imagine that Avocets and Aquanauts (each in their various models) make up the bulk of Valley sales in North America. Peter mentioned that the Nordkapp LV was selling more than expected when introduced, though I imagine that fad has passed.
Valley
Think I’ve only seen a Q-Boat once out on the water, but I have seen quite a few Pintails. The thing that surprises me about Canoecopia is that they usually have more than a dozen boats on display and they’re almost all variations of the Aquanaut, Avocet and Nordkapp. A quick check of Rutabaga’s website reflects this.
Of course, you have to show what’s going to sell and a new glass boat isn’t in too much danger of being an impulse purchase for me but then they’d have a better chance of selling Q-Boats if they showed them.
depends on what you pack
I can pack an Outer Island for a week camping trip if I am careful and organized. Much more if I don’t need to carry water but can filter along the way. You got to make some choices though. I have a pretty good minimalist backpack setup that serves me very well in a kayak with tons of room to spare. GK sleeps on the ground and subsists on beanie weenies etc for weeks. I personally am partial to some sort of padding under my solo tent or my hennessy hammock. sleeping bag size of football, kitchen even smaller with alcohol stove and pot. thought process includes if you are not wearing every piece of clothing you own when sleeping you brought too much. etc etc.
A kayak can take untold luxuries like a thermarest chair that doubles as your sleep mat even!
Paul
Chopped Mat…
Since this was mentioned above…
I’m not sure what all the fuss is about NDK’s use of chopped mat.
I am no fiberglass expert, but from what I understand the chopped mat (while heavy and not so sexy), is pretty darn strong and stiff.
If there is a break it will stay more localized making a repair easier…especially in the field.
Sounds like a winner to me. NDK boats are not super light, but I have never heard anyone say they were not strong or stiff.
Matt
NDK boats
are proven. no doubt. there have been some discussions about quality issues but the same discussions have been made about wildy or cd or a number of others.
One thing you can state unequivocably is that the explorer is a very well mannered boat with very predictable performance characteristics. (whether the coaming comes off or not is another issue entirely) they are heavier and they do use cheaper quality fiberglass such as the mat. Dunno if this is an advantage or not but do know that a lot of people like to jump on that as if it is a quality or performance issue and I don’t know enough about it to make a comment.
Great solid performer… fast? no. quick and responsive? most say no. predictable? yes… Is it the boat of choice for getting you through the snot? it seems to be but I agree that more Nordkapps have probably been involved in expeditions than explorers.
I would take one if offered. Probably wouldn’t be my first choice though even though it very well might have been when I was first starting out.
Paul