I thought it would be great for QCC owners to exchange tips and ideas. I have acted upon some suggestions from paddlers that I have come to respect. These suggestions included modifications, which I have made to the rudder system as well as paddle length. This has resulted in better handling and speed.
The SmartTrack Rudder System rudder housing, on my QCC 700x, would submerge during a sprint. I had a 4 ½” x ¾” stainless steel strip welded to the existing bracket. New holes were machined in the bracket resulting in raising the housing up one inch. I replaced the blade with a tandem blade after shortening it by 4 inches. The result is 4 inches less blade in the water with the remaining blade approximately ½ inch wider. The boat turns in a tighter radius and does it faster. I guess there is less rudder drag in the turn. By the way, I only paddle in flat water, no more than 6” wind born waves. This would probably not be a good idea if you like to surf waves! I also discovered that the rudder would lift during sprints. I increased the tension on the rudder to overcome this. The halyard used to deploy the rudder tended to fall overboard when the rudder lifted during sprints. I attached a ¼” cable fastener through the loupe on the safety line just forward of the aft U bolt. By running the halyard through the fastener along the port side of the U bolt, I eliminated the problem.
As to paddle length, I started out with a European 220cm Aqua Bound Stingray. After about six months, I got an ONNO mid wing at 215cm with 60o. This is a great very light paddle. In the beginning of February, I got an Epic mid wing. While it is much heavier, 6oz., it is adjustable, after much trial and error, I am currently using it at 212 1/2cm with 50o feather. Boy is my catch better. There is now almost no noise or moving air on the catch.
I hope that this may be of some use to someone. I am greatly appreciative of any comments or advice. To those who have helped me with the above suggestions, thanks again.
Hi pjpaddler
Great tips. You might want to take out the stock seat, get a new seat and place it forward three or four inches from the point where the stock seat was located. If you are not too tall you will still be able to get in and out easily. The QCC squats at higher speeds. The seat move will help. The QCC squats more than the Epic does.
I bout Patrick’s (ONNO) chair seat. It is a lot more comfortable and will give you a lot more connection to the boat than the stock seat. It is very easy to install.
Good luck
Franklin
Be careful with seat moves
The 700 has had three different cockpit placements:
Centered (original)
8" aft of center (mine)
5" aft of center (current)
I move my seat 3" - which just puts it in the same spot on the hull as the current production - but with coaming farther back it gets me under the braces more, a bit better layback, and better trim/handling
If resting trim is OK I wouldn’t sweat the squat. As Winters says, it’s symptom of speed - not a hindrance - and a bow heavy boat is not the best thing fro other considerations.
Mine’s outfitted more like a Brit boat than racer.
yep
I have one 8" aft of center one and one of the newer 5" aft of center ones. I personally like the 8" aft of center one as it gives me more TOE room, the newer one I have to sit with my toes pointed at the sides. As for the Rudder that’s been my ONLY complaint as well as the small cockpit size for me 6’3” I wish it was longer. Anyway the QCC folks sent me a bracket that raised the rudder about an inch by simply moving the mounting holes up a bit. The problem is still the flat rudder bracket catching water. A top mount system would be the way to go, and I tried that, but when they built my boat with the top mount system they cut the back deck down about an inch & a half, so the rudder bracket really hung in the water. I sent that boat back. Really a top pin mount system built up so that only the rudder hits the water would be the way to go… However the new epic boats have LONGER COCKPITS, and under stern rudders. That address both of the minor problems with my QCCs. Well actually one of them has a skeg, but I like the rudder one MUCH MUCH better!!! Any way, like I said I am looking long and hard at the new epics, and would love to test one of the new ones. But really I am leaning toward a ski right now…
Toe Room
Before I sold mine, I fabricated a foot brace that spanned the Toe Pilot controls under the tutelage of another P-Net poster (Thanks!). This helped a great deal, as it allowed me to slide my feet towards center where the deck is most peaked when I didn’t need to alter course with the Toe Pilots. In effect, it straightened my legs to a more surf ski/K-1 position, taking pressure off the sciatic nerve, while giving additional toe room, and a solid platform the width of the hull to brace/pump my legs against. A section of aluminum closet rod hammered flat and riveted to curved aluminum plates at both ends worked wonderfully. When I sold the boat, I transferred it to my Epic 18. Had to cut it down considerably, so the width difference between the pegs from QCC to Epic was quite noticeable.
At Franklin’s recommendation (Thanks again!), I too, installed Pat’s chair seat. The flat stock pan was not doing me any favors. Installed Pat’s seat about 1.5" further forward than stock. Perhaps more importantly, the chair seat gives additional support on the sides which was helpful for boat control with hips alone. Surprisingly, the flexibility of the seat sides didn’t interfere at all with torso rotation. Sadly, w/o major surgery (mine or the boat’s), I couldn’t work around the lower thigh braces and splay-legged positions, so…au revoir.
Paddled the Epic 18X on flat water and the cockpit is wonderful. The boat was fast, but don’t know about that Trackmaster steering either. Looks like a lot of drag, and wonder how much bite it would have in conditions. Initially hated the rudder bracket on the Q-Tip, which always trolled behind. After a while, I just kept the rudder down all the time and forgot all about it. I agree that a flip up, top mounted foil rudder would be best. Or maybe like a Huki S1-R ski, the option of interchangeable under and overstern rudders would be superb.
Hi Trilobite02
Sorry about your continued problems with the Q ship. I too had those problems but not as severe. Patrick’s seat was the fix.
I just keep my rudder wet and got used to being made fun of for my lack of skill. On the other hand, when the wind and waves are up, I find a long slow lunch at the take out waiting for my skeg buddies to show up does wonders for the soul.
When I had my Q boat built, I had them raise my rudder up the stern about one and one half inches to get the casting out of the water. I also had them move my forward bulkhead back toward my feet to make room for more gear in the forward hatch. God bless QCC.
I am interested in a new boat. I am going to take a closer look at the new Epic. I wish they’d go back to a Smart Track rudder. I am also interest in the new Kayakpro Marlin. But it’s not out yet and there will be very few around. Decisions decisions.
Franklin
Rudder
Not clear on your rudder modification. Got a pic?
Have no clue…
I borrowed a 700 last night for a quick tryout and thought the leg situation felt a little funny. Plus I was surprised at how tall the boat seemed to be.
Rudder location and volume
I didn’t do the modification to the rudder location. QCC did. The top bolt that holds the housing to the boat is dead center of the seam tape. Where the cables come out of the boat, they now angle up about 20 degrees instead of straight to the rudder.
When you look at the boat it seems like it is out of the water but it’s not. It actually sits a little low in the water. I have plenty of pictures of the boat unladen with me in the boat. I do weigh about 220 though.
Franklin
Tall? 12" is same or less than many Brit
Seating issues are easy enough to address. Really easy without the foot brace/toe pilot issues. Feet are at the root of most seating/comfort issues - and small pegs and working levers with your toes aggravates this - but people tend to focus on their rear ends…
With skeg I have been able to put in full bulkhead type foot surface - and am very comfortable on the bare stock seat pan.
The Q, with a small understern rudder (wouldn’t need much blade area) and a different control system (gas pedal, Pat’s platform, or tiller w. push/pull bars) would be sweet. Pat’s seat or a racing seat would be better still.
I may do this at some point - but would rather integrate that sort of outfitting into something else I’d like to build that’s lower volume, faster, more roll friendly, and a bit more rough water optimized. Something more speed oriented that’s designed for the skinny stick swingers (and small craft advisory junkies with any paddle)…
Moving the seat in a QCC700x
Thanks for the great advice everyone.
I understand moving the seat forward will hurt the boat’s tracking ability. I use a full time rudder. Does anyone believe that using the rudder would not be sufficient or economical to correct for loss of tracking ability?
Instead of moving the seat forward, I moved the back brace as far forward as possible and pushing it down, thereby forcing my but to rest about 2 or 3 inches forward of the back of the seat. This may be looked at as not very elegant, however I do not have enough confidence in my mechanical skills to start cutting up my boat!
I’ll admit, having the seat a couple of inches forward would probably be nice. I noticed a significant improvement in the efficiency of my forward stroke and speed just from my back band adjustment. Unfortunately, the straps from the back band need to be tightened every time. I have tried various knots but all my efforts have failed. By the way, I am 5’7” and 175 lb (on a good day.). With my back band adjustment, I have had to sit up on the back band to get my legs under the coming without taking skin off my shins. There seems to be a price to be paid for everything!
I’ve just completed my first year kayaking. The only other boat I’ve ever owned is a Perception Eclipse 16 (plastic). I’ve only been in a couple of kayaks so am definitely not competent to make educated comments on the pros and cons of any kayak. All I can say is I LOVE MY QCC 700x!
Move it
You’re right, with rudder always deployed you’ll have no tracking issues - just watch trim.
The current production is still 5" back from the original position - which some say was faster - so I doubt you can go too wrong.
My take on the history:
Old version - placed center for heavy loading - use rudder.
Gen 2 - placed 8" aft for unloaded/day paddles. Best skeg version - too far back for optimal rudder use. OK to move seat up for either.
Gen 3 - tweaked back forward 3" to make better with rudder (that most order) and get back some speed and manuverability. Skeg also OK with this. With Skeg I might not do a seat move. With rudder, should be fine.
Since you are already scooting forward, you’ve already tested this anyway.
Now about that backband… Whatever it is rip it out an replace with an IR Reggie (drill new hole a little lower than existing and mount ratchet straps there - then use the other set of web straps to somehow hook to back of seat and keep the band LOW - as low as it will go).
Cutting the seat out is a bit tough, but not complicated. QCC uses some INSANE adhesive. I used a chisel flat flat to the hull (and also to separate from posts at sides. Be careful. Seat can be re-glued with 3M 5200 fast cure or similar (or get the stuff QCC uses- name escapes me right now). Seat posts will no longer line up. I just left them loose. Takes away a bit of cockpit rigidity but no problems so far. Could also be glassed to hull, or trimmed.
My QCC
I moved my seat up three to four inches and with the rudder down, it tracks like a train.
Franklin
my most heavilly modded kayak
I like the QCC and so much it has recieved the most mods, on this page 3 mods are depicted:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/546410669vcRDzp?start=12
The hardest mod was the installation of a knee tube and a 4th hatch that opens into the knee tube. The knee tube can also be accessed by a 5th hatch when the spraydeck is removed.
The next hardest mod was the installation of a skeg trim system and grandest thanks to Greyak for his pictures and suggestions.
The easiest was the installation (if you can call drilling a hole an installation) of a hydration system–this after paddling with Marcinnc (and string and others from p.net) to Bulls Island–I was so thirsty after getting there and really couldnt drink in the interesting crossing, with this system and the bit valve clipped to the PFD a sip of water is always there. What is not shown is the clips inside the hatch attached to the hull so you can strap the bladder down.
One mod not pictured is the removal of the foot pegs and the addition of a piece of mini-cell foam side to side and top to bottom and cut to the suggested (thanks bnystrom) 15 degree angle (also added this to the Q-boat).
the QCC700 is a classic in kayak design and well worth customizing. I’ve found it idea for paddle camping where long daily distances are encountered as well and where you need huge storage capacity.
You’ll eventually convice me to…
… add a knee tube myself. Been thinking about it ever since I got the kayak.
Haven’t been keeping much in the underdeck bag lately though - so no urgeny. Crazier projects to do first.
Seat Adhesive is Plexus
I just confirmed my order for my third QCC700, this one in full carbon with rudder. I styill have the original cockpit version in Kevlar. I sold an all-carbon version with the 8" aft coakpit location.
When the ne boat arrives may become the only paddler to have owned and paddled the 700 in all three cockpit locations. But I’ve got to tell you I really like the original forward location with full-time rudder. That ol’ heavy whippy Kevlar dog is both fast, tracks great (with cut down rudder) and is responsive to rudder inputs as the stern pivots easily. I suspect I will be ooching my seat forward to capture a similar feel in the new boat.
I ordered it with the seat shipped loose. I have an Simon River Sports sliding seat that I will likley use. Using Plexus (or less tenacious 5200) to glue in QCC seat at a later time is a fairly simple procedure.
The Sealine rudder will be mounted up higher than usual with the optional mount. However, I may switch over to Onno’s rudder and gas pedal system once Patrick gets back up to speed in his new shop.
I’m having the rudder lift line mounted on the left side near the forward part of the cockpit so I can clear weed on the fly with my non-control hand. I currently do this with the old Feathercraft rudder system, losing about 1 stroke per clearing.
I’m having QCC build the hatches with as much carbon as practical, what they refer to as “Light weight Build, carbon hatch, etc” on the invoice.
I ordered it without the thigh braces. I’ve never been a fan of thigh braces. They interfere with good leg movement and also makes the smallish cockpit opening even smaller. There is still plenty of meat outboard under the deck to hang onto with if necessary.
I’m hoping she comes in at around 40lbs.
By the way, I do not feel any embarassment at all as I fly past the rudderless. Converting to a boat like a QCC700, a wing paddle and a full time rudder will double average speeds and triple the range compared to the typical Brit boat paddler.
advice on knee tube
since you’ll probably glass up the tube yourelf go ahead and lay out what you want in it to determine its size.
The one I used was from KajakSport–it is sold for their Millenium. This is a sizeable tube, even larger than the one that came installed in the Q-boat and it can swallow a lot of gear. The one thing that has a permanent home there is the lightweight coverall cag I picked up at the Tybee Symposium:
http://www.seakayakingusa.com/gear.htm
One thing I’m wondering about…the new Garmin 76CSx, it gets reception in my house, so will test to see if it can get reception while in the knee tube…I bet it will…
I’ve heard that some people thing knee tubes will inhibit entry or exiting the kayak. This depends on the size of the tube. In the Lincoln Eggemoggin (the only US manuf. to offer a 4th hatch as of right now) the tube is small and you will never know it is there (but still be enough for flares,camera,sunscreen, snacks). The larger tubes can be padded with thin minicell and offer even another place in the cockpit to brace against.
Also consider the length of the tube when retrofitting. You will have to glass all around it and its a b&^tch working upside down and reaching back of the tube when working.
Thoughts on a small understern?
I sometimes consider adding a small understern rudder w weed guard (though weeds not a big issue for me) at forward end of skeg slot. Also adding gas pedal or tiller setup - and more of a race type sliding seat too.
700 set up like this could be pretty sweet.
Think I’m more likely/better off to eventually build/buy something than retrofitting my 700 with gen2 cockpit location though.
I like understern rudders
I like understern rudders. The weed issue is my main concern with understerns, but that can be addressed with swept back leading edges and weed guards.
Some may be concerned about the deeper draft of an understern rudder. When crossing a very shallow area, I have simply heeled the kayak over by leaning to create clearance for the fixed rudder.
My next surfski will have an understern rudder, probably a deep weedless one like an 8 incher. Thinking about ordering a Huki S1R so it will arrive mid to late July. I just don’t know what length cockpit to get for my 31" inseam. I do not want the added weight and complexity of adjustable foot pedals. I actually may have to fly to CA to get measured for it since I can not find reliable info on sizing.
Please Let Us Know
how the new boat pans out. Good thinking on the specified mods ordered. I often wondered if my Q-Ship would have been more bearable without the thigh braces and with the addition of a gas pedal system like I installed in my EFT. The EFT has plenty of coaming area to wedge your knees under as well; the only downside to the large cockpit is if you roll it or get knocked over, you literally fall right out of the boat-that’s what the thigh straps are for, I figured out… With the smaller and narrower keyhole cockpit on the 700, I doubt that would be an issue.
An understern would be a great addition to the Q, maybe one like Huki offers that allows you to change blades in about 30 seconds. I too, am considering an S1-R, down to two ski choices. One wonderful thing about the S1-R is the capability of changing over from understern to overstern kick up rudder in minutes. Great for shallow, rocky or weed choked rivers. Pat’s P-41 rudder drops right in, and quick connectors make hook up a snap.