Question about Mohawk hull diagrams

The Mohawk website has diagrams for some of their models. For example, when you click on the “Specifications” tab on the diagram for the Odyssey 14 is at the bottom of the page.

The diagram has three vertical lines A, B and C. I understand A is the center of the hull.

What do lines B (36" from center) and C (14" from stem) mean?

The statement “straight keeled to
18 inches from center” does not seem useful or easy to interpret. The one Odyssey 14 I’ve seen had a relatively straight keel compared to my Mad River Guide Solo. I think it’s possible they meant to say that the keel is fairly straight out to 36" from center.

I wouldn’t get hung up about their details. It’s a good smoothwater river cruiser that can also handle some waves on lakes and haystacks in rapids. Not a highly agile boat, but just fine for cruising on class 2.

My Oddysey 14
Has some rocker but probably not as much as the MR Guide BUT I actually prefer it for my uses. If you add flotation, it is perfectly capable to handle class III whitewater better than the Guide (freedom Solo) in my opinion. I Love mine and have settled on it after owning dozens of solo canoes.

I was just curious if those lines
meant anything in boat building terms. Why did Mohawk put them there? Their Solo has a similar diagram.

I don’t know what you do in class 3, but
I would not want to do it in either the Guide or the Odyssey. If I’m going to run the Nantahala, I use my Synergy, not the Guide. Even in the Synergy, some route-planning is necessary to get through the larger Nanty rapids dry.

I can see why you would prefer the Odyssey for class 12+. It is faster than the Guide. I’m not sure why it would be drier, though. And the more maneuvering one tries to do, the better the Guide will look.

I doubt it. Anyway, the best way to
size up a canoe, short of paddling it, is to size up a live example. Sparing that, inspect all the pictures you can find.


– Last Updated: May-25-14 8:37 PM EST –

what's that like...37 or 40? come on.....please....

rocker dimensions
rocker builds from B to C at 1.5 inch. Assume rocker from 18" to B is negligible.

The dimension is useful to an experienced load packer for estimating handling changes from trim, that is loading weight at front or rear probably here beginning at 18" then towards the bow. ?

Uh yes, dozenx2
WELL if you must know I have owned AT LEAST 24 solo canoes over the last 22 years because I enjoy swapping, buying, selling etc as well as paddling. Okie dokie!

Diagram is useful
for a comparative estimate of manueverability. If you campare it to the diagram of the Mohawk Solo you note that the Solo has a flat keel out to 39" from center vs 18" for the Odyssey. Pesumably, the Odyssey would be a bit livlier and the Solo a better tracker.

There have been discussions here lamenting the lack of a common standard for measuring rocker. This little diagram from Mohawk adds a bit of clarity.


I understand
the 18" (Odyssey) vs 39" (Solo) straight-keeledness difference, but that still doesn’t explain mysterious lines B and C.

Is B just there at 36" so we can see that, say, the Odyssey is already rockered at that point but the Solo isn’t? We already know this from their “STRAIGHT KEELED” prose in the diagram. Is C supposed to be the point at which they measure rocker?

I’m grasping
here, but, taking the last question first, it looks to me that “C” is the point where the keel ends and the forefoot starts. We can see that the distance from “C” to the front of the boat is 2" greater on the Odyssey. A larger radius here will again translate into better manueverability. As for “B”, I can only guess that they put it in there to give us a common reference point to gauge both rocker and sheer.


Those lines
B is the point along the keel line where rocker starts.

C is a line 14" inboard of the stem where rocker is measured. This is an attempt to standardize rocker, which would be nice. Getting designers to all use that standard is kinda like training cats to herd butterflies, or vice versa.

No, that can’t be the explanation
When you look at the Odyssey and Solo diagrams, B seems to be just an arbitrary point 36" from A. The rocker on the Odyssey starts before B and on the Solo starts after B.

As to C, it’s measured 14" before the nose for the Odyssey but 12" for the Solo – so it’s hard to see how C can be a standardized distance for a rocker measurement. Plus, there are no rocker measurements listed in the specs. Maybe I’m missing something.

Might make sense, but standardizing
how to measure rocker is rather pointless, because the effect of that measurement will vary, sometimes tremendously, with the overall hull design. Two canoe designs may have the same rocker, measured as we’re discussing in the present example, but may differ considerably in how easily they spin, and how they track.

I still say, either paddle the boat, or at least look at it from all angles, with a practiced eye. A “dry” figure like rocker does not tell much by itself.

The points A, B, & C
are not vertical lines. The drawing is a bit confusing. The vertical measurements stand on their own as evidenced by the arrowheads. Points A, B, & C refer to points on the hull running horizontally along the keel line. Taken in this context, Charlie Wilson is absolutely correct. Mohawk is trying to point out that the hull from Point A to Point B is totally flat. Rocker does not begin until after Point B and ends at Point C. This configuration will handle differently than one in which the rocker begins at the Center Point. Generally one assumes that a given rocker starts from the Center Point, so Mohawk is simply trying to show that is not the case with these hulls. HTH


Don’t think so . . .
. . . for the reasons I already stated. You have to compare the diagrams for both the Odyssey and Solo.

A = the middle of the canoe.

B = a point on the keel 36" from A, for both the Odyssey and the Solo.

The Odyssey is said to have a “straight keel” for 18" from A. Thus the rocker or rise begins at the 18" point, which is the arrowhead midway between A and B.

The Solo is said to have a “straight keel” for 39" from A. Thus the rocker or rise begins at the 39" point, which is arrowhead between B and C.

Maybe C is supposed to be where rocker “ends”, but I don’t see why. It seems to be on a different point of the keel curve for the two boats, and it’s also at a different indent distance from the stems of the two boats.


– Last Updated: May-26-14 9:12 PM EST –

The reader deducks to arrive at rocker. Rocker is clearly paced aft of bow rise and ahead of the commonly assumed depending on who's pulling the hull, flatter surface.

What I do, music please, is copy factory images into Word then flip the images and numbers into Word, view back and forth until my brain gets the message.

Effective for comparing different but closely matched designs, eyeballing dramatic design differences between a Jensen and a Bell. One Porsche R to the next year's.

Effective for comparing eg cyclocross bike designs where differences are in a few millimeters and degrees and amazingly where the factories apparently agreed on similar presentation formats for online viewing.

Second that
agree with Glenn completely. Hence my original question.

B seems to be a somewhat (but not completely) arbitrary reference point to compare different models. Maybe.

Okay, admittedly
the diagrams are not clear and Point B may be arbitrary. So the diagrams are open to interpretation and only Mohawk knows for sure. Notwithstanding anal retentiveness, the point is that if a flat bottom is not pointed out people will assume rocker starts at the Center Point and Mohawk is trying to say it does not. How flat, at this point, who knows.