Reponses from outdoor recreation industry to withdrawal from the Paris Accord

Of interest to anyone who values our natural environment:

We all need to be looking for ways to do our part.


Thanks for the link. So much news this morning…

For a long time, there was and still is a sizeable contingent in P-Net who dismissed climate change as real. Any mention was met with derision of tree hugging, liberal do-gooders who wanted to destroy our economy and by embracing sustainable energy development.

Such posts were almost always fodder for “bicker and banter.” Wait for it… wait for it…



Hope you are wrong… it is something that anyone can ignore.

Thanks for posting. For anyone interested, look up Pope Francis’ encyclical on the environment published this summer. This is in no way intended to open a commentary on religions/religious leaders and all horrific deeds/actions/inactions associable. Just another potentially interesting note of a leader of influence and their take on the subject.

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I too am concerned about the natural environment and do what I can. Yet, the earth has gone through climate change many times in it’s history without the influence of humans. The question is, do humans affect climate. Yes would be my answer, but in a small way. I have memories of dirty air and cars spewing fumes, Then Earth day happened and changes were made, improvements made, technology cleaned up the exhaust of cars. We have come a long way from those days. But what is it that influences climate more than anything. The sun and it varies in intensity over long periods of time and causes climate change. Global warming is far better than global cooling.


Garbage in, garbage out climate models.

Good grief… An article by the same type of religious right folks who maintain that the “science” is not settled just as the facts don’t demonstrate our president is other than an “honest, pious, family man.”

I am helping to get this thread closed since there is no longer a forum purgatory, i.e. Binker and Banter, to send this thread to.



It’s a bad topic because it doesn’t agree with you?

It’s not bad topic. In fact, I am among those who think this is pivotal topic. The point is what to do about it. For me, it’s doing something about it on the personal (and/or political level) in the real and not the virtual world.

I actually like the OP which talks about a trade group that is urging a response in the real world. But, I also know that such a post will draw out the those want to maintain that the “science” is still unsettled. That has been the case here over the years.

For those who are concerned, now is the time to do something. Posting and tweeting is not doing something.



I’m sort of in the too many people camp. In my lifetime world population has increased over 300%. With our technology advances we don’t need what we have…

I guess we are getting close to B&B

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If I remember correctly, Malthus predicted the population issue long ago.

Well, this started out with some speculation regarding the future of the outdoor industry in an age of climate change…

With that in mind, it is practically guaranteed there will be some sea level rise in the foreseeable future. Mightn’t there be some strong likelihood that a number of towns will look more like Venice than they do today? There will,no doubt, be some population displacement. I can’t see into the future any better than anyone else, but doesn’t it seem like there could likely be displacements from desertification, drought, seasonal flooding, fire hazards, and other climate change effects as well?
There will be some refugees. Wouldn’t that mean there is some probability that some folks - perhaps many - will be needing tents, sleeping bags, canoes, kayaks, bicycles, even RVs and trailers; outdoor industry stuff. Perhaps even expansion of public lands to reside on till new homes are established might become a wise, perhaps even ultimately necessary, set-aside.

Setting aside the polarized debate, I’m guessing that this might even be a boon for the outdoor industry. It,unfortunately, just might not be a recreational outdoor industry anymore.

One thing that some outdoor recreation equipment vendors are doing (REI and Patagonia come to mind) is to enable people to more readily recycle both used gear and the materials that newer gear can be made of. Two young folks here in my end of Pittsburgh opened an independent outfitter store last year and about 20% of their floor space is dedicated to a consignment department where customers can sell their used quality brand gear for a 60/40 split. They typically have used stock in everything from kayaks and backpacks to snowboards and every type of outdoor sport clothing and footwear. I’ve personally made over $500 selling my excess and unused gear there since they opened.

It’s a good business for the store too – yes, they may lose a sale on a new $200 high capacity backpack or a $160 paddle when customer buys a consignment used one for half that price. But (1.) they don’t have to pay for the consignment stock up front or pay freight charges to receive it (2.) they make near double the percentage on the sale once it is purchased. And in many cases (like in mine) I will tend to use my portion of the sale to buy more stuff from the store (I get 10% more in store credit if I take that rather than cash.)

I used to work in the outfitter business: the profit margins range from “keystoned” (50% gross margin on list price clothing) to maybe 15% on large ticket items like kayaks. But with the need to discount stock seasonally, the net margins hover somewhere around 12% to 20% net, depending on overhead. But, say I bring in a used item of my own that they sell for $100. They give me $60 in store credit for that and keep $40. But if I decide to swap the credit for buying something in the store (as I often do) with that $60 it will be something they probably only paid $30 for (whether new or another consigned item.) So essentially they profit $70 off that $100 my stuff sold for – a 70% margin (more than a 200% markup) is pretty damned good in retail. Gives them a nice little cash cushion with no carrying charges.

Also, being able to buy better quality used gear within a limited budget allows new outdoor enthusiasts to invest in functional products that will last instead of discount store disposable crap that would just end up in the trash stream.

This board has always encouraged beginning paddlers to “buy used” to get the best bang for the buck AND to get quality gear that will enhance their enjoyment and that will last. That’s becoming an option for other wilderness sports gear now. For vendors it means they can continue to generate profits for themselves by reselling existing products without having to expand production and use more energy and raw materials and generate more waste. It’s not going to “save the world” but it’s a step in the right direction.

I remember that Walden used to make kayaks with recycled plastic. With the proliferation of cheapo discount store kayaks, it seems like there would be a profit incentive to work out an effective way to collect and pelletize old boats to use for new moldings. I would certainly prefer to see that than the damned ethylene cracker plant and plastic resin complex that is currently being built upwind of me in SW Pennsylvania to harvest the waste gas from the fracking boom here. We already have some of the worst air pollution in the USA here in the Pittsburgh area and that thing is only going to make things worse, to feed the world’s hunger for more plastic crap.

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Downsizing to RVs may become the new normal to be able to relocate out of harm’s way.

^^^ The 21st century version of the Dust Bowl migrants of the 1930’s (they were essentially climate disaster refugees too.)

I hope we can collectively treat them better than the displaced people of the Dust Bowl were for the most part, at least before the New Deal. WPA and CCC.

Well, here’s a place to start:

I’m curious what the The Outdoor Industry Organization’s results would be.

Yes, perhaps the new CCC can be put to work raking the forest floor.

Up until this morning, the weather this month has been delightful. If this is climate change, I’ll take it any day. Yeah, I know, there’s a difference between weather and climate. However, that only applies one way; if it’s hotter than usual–it’s climate change. If it’s cooler than normal–well that’s global warming. If there is a storm–that’s climate change–so it goes according to the experts.

Some of us have been around long enough to see the weather/climate change a number of times. When I was a youngster, Arizona was hot. It still is. When I was a kid, the western PNW was rainy. It still is, but not like some places where they get as much rain in a week as we get all year.

In school, I studied the Ice Ages. Global warming is a cake walk by comparison. Here’s the real deal: There is absolutely nothing that anyone can do about the weather, or the climate. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do everything practical about keeping the environment as clean as we can.

Polyethylene and composites are bad for the environment in some peoples minds. The lack of those ingredients is disastrous to paddling–too bad.

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