OK, I have read some long chats about folks and the Tempest 17. I have also been to some wonderfull web sites on how to roll. Rolling down is easy, rolling up ???
Snap hip from the wall 1,2,3. Snap hip off the wall hardy har har.
I have a pool in the back yard and am getting real comfortable, compared to when I dumped the thing last Feb in a river. I have told myself no more river until I can roll. I can ““ALLMOST”” at times bat can see that my technique is lacking. I really want to get on the coast or the bay and even getting back into the river would be ok for some good excersize. I am making myself stay out of the canoe “yeh, ok another canoehead trying kayaking” untill I learn this “thing”.
I am in lower slower Delaware, and have the Tempest in the pool in the backyard. If anyone could help out with some guidance, motivation etc etc please let me know. I can tell that I am better than last week, but I seem to have hit a wall. Is the Tempest an easy roller, should I borrow something for learning the moves and then move into the tempest??
I are 6’ and 222, mostly above the waist. Is there something unique that I need to do or is this just the normal curve.
Thanks for any encouragement, or visits from someone willing to help.
Parr
T 170 is an easy roller
for me @ 5’7" 170lbs. I recommend “EJ’s bracing and rolling” DVD (as will my Tempest brother Kudzu.) You can get it here:http://www.paddling.net/store/
normal curve
tempest is one of the easier ones to roll. You’ll get there. Make sure your thigh pads are set properly to allow you to really grip so you don’t lose the boat while rolling up…that is the biggest challenge.
Paul
Ya Mon!
Krous Mon knows me well.
Learning the brace before the roll is so damn intelligent.
I May Have The Record
For the most practice required to learn to roll. It took me an extraordinarly long time. I can tell you that it is more mental than physical, even though I felt battered after many practice sessions. I have seen Kudzu’s partners roll their Tempest 17s and they looked good. I differ a bit with the accepted norm in that I don’t like a layback roll as the EJ video teaches and prefer to be upright and braced at the end of my roll. That is just personal preference and there are more types of rolls than there are folks that roll.
The high brace and the sweep roll are first cousins. You do the same things and use the same techniques. If you learn one you have the other. In my case, I thought I had a good high brace before I could roll and as it turns out I didnt until after I found my roll. A roll is an extended high brace.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
lesson, friend, teacher
Rolling is hard to learn all by yourself, and a lot easier with someone there to guide you. If you can take a private lesson from a good teacher, great. If not, talk a friend who knows how to roll into helping you. If all else fails, get a non-rolling friend to watch a video with you and then help you. Not having to wet exit each time will help you learn a lot faster. A greenland paddle will make it even easier! I found Jay Babina’s First Roll DVD a real help (more helpful than classes, to be honest), and that would work very well for learning with a friend, even if the friend had no idea how to roll but had watched the video with you. Good luck–rolling is fun.
Betcha I took longer
But it was sooo long - spent a year plus just gradually getting by claustrophobia. Time to roll on a repeated basis once I had achieved the mental state that most people start with was still a year or so. Things kept looking good until I had a paddle in my hand…
be more specific
What do you mean hardee har har? If you want assistance via a forum the feedback can be useful if folks know exactly what you’re doing.
have you purchased any instructional video?
this can be dificult enough with instruction let alone solo.
Something totally off the wall. Stand straight with the paddle in your hands,normal grip, twist your torso to the left and bend forward a little while lifting your left knee up to your right elbow…reverse by putting your left leg down and twist to the right lifting your right knew up to your left elbow. Something to play with.
Snapping off the wall
stop asap. Learn to snap off a floation seat cushion. Push down hard on a wall; you come up. Push down hard on a floation cushion you will sink... Ej's video, and Kent Ford's "The kayak roll" are two of the most popular.
More than a roll. My sense is that you need competant companions. Your roll only gets you back to where you went over from, Useful at sea if you get fooled, not as useful when conditions are widespread and just plain nasty.
rolling a tempest 17
hey, this is really a great crew. not even a day and some usefull, benificial, careing replies.
my hardy har har meant that if you were watching, you were probably laughing.
i printed out several explicit instructions from the web. i believe that one was a basic condensed version from the book “bomb proof roll”. this took me from doing it completly backwards to getting close.
after reading some of your replies, i am thinking that maybe the “ej brace and roll dvd” is the way to go. hearing someone confess to several years of getting it down has incouraged me somewhat becouse i really think that i am getting close and it has only been a weekend or two. it’s just that i ussually pick this sorta thing up easy and wow, what a challange. i must confess new respect for the kayakers and i take back any negitive things i may have said from a canoehead point of view.
i am having great fun with it, and look forward to putting some good scenery and such by and by.
here is where i are.
it seems that practicing from a wall, fully submerged, that i am doing an ok hip snap and ussing minimal hand pressure on the wall to finish the recovery. i am practicing on keeping my head as submerged as practical. when i go from the wall and put a paddle in my hands, i set up with a forward tuck and try to start a sweep that turns into more of a brace. it seems that i am getting really close at times, but just missing a few degrees. i am rolling and hanging upside down prior to set up, left hand to the rear, right hand up front start the sweep and snap. sweep seems to go too fast and stops mid stroke abeam the hull. it becomes a brace and the hardy har har comes into play as i get sooo close but back down i go. practice practice.
if anyone wants to sell an “ejs brace and roll” or even rent it let me know. if i don’t hear back i will order one later this week. i have three teenagers to learn also so it will be put to use.
i am learning to apriciate the tempest 17. there definatly seems to be a point of no return still without a quick strong brace. when she goes, she goes. i am really resisting the river, but i figure the discipline will make me learn it quicker.
thanks again, and don’t hesitate to hollar any thots at me.
parr
rolling a tempest 17
hey thanks fer speedy getback.
great idea and i will give it a try next time in.
we have been stormed out here in dealaware. 10-12 inches last night and this am.
my wife got a pic of a practice in the rain.
i am trying and will put the float to use.
thanks again.
parr
I Agree
I think that practice on a wall or with your partner holding the end of your paddle is OK only to the point that you learn a “hip flick”. Beyond that it defeats the real thing that the roll is about. Your hips are rotating the boat and the boat pulls you up. The paddle helps to stabilize you and create some balance. If you use the wall or a person in practice you are using your arms and torso to lever yourself up rather than the boat to pull you up.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
rolling a tempest 17
wow,
i have heard/seen some photos of someone doing a paddle free hands only roll recovery. i figured it was a different boat that was easier to work.
i guess i am saying that i did not realize how much more important the hip flick is than the paddle push???
i have tried to stay upright in the boat while laying over putting my head into the water. i no can get my head in without rolling over, even with a full forward tuck. i no be havin a big arse, but i have had a beverage or two so i didnt know if i was fighting a upper bodyweight issue or what. no i wont be making excuses, i will be applying everything stated here on this thread.
thanks again fer the food fer thot.
parr
Tempest is a Great roller
Don’t worry about the boat, the Tempest is a good rolling boat. Also don’t get in a hurry to learn the roll. Enjoy the boat for a while.
When you’re ready for the roll, three simple rules… 1) keep the head down 2) slow down and 3) engage only one knee.
You’ll be rolling in no time.
Wade
ohh yeah
"i did not realize how much more important the hip flick is than the paddle push"
hip flick is about 80%of it. The other 20% having to do with the paddle is getting your torso and it in a good position. NOT in position to lift yourself up by the paddle,,in position to bring the boat underneath you with the brace.
Most folks attempt sitting up under the water with makes the blade dive,,you want your torso off to the side, not pointing straight down. Thats why I suggest the knee lift/torso twist exercise. You really have to crunch one side and stretch the other then stretch one side and crunch the other.
A general thought,,you've got all kinds of nerves in your hands that make you think they have something to do with the roll as you grip the paddle,,you've got all kinds of reflexes as a spear holding, tree climbing, weight lifting monkey that have NOTHING to do with rolling. It's in your twisting torso and lifting knee/hip snap. There aren't any reflexes that tell you "twist/bend and you get to live and breath again",,the normal reflexes are more along the line of "get your damn head out of the water and pull yourself up by whatever you're grabbing onto,,NOW!",,,which pretty much gurantees you won't come up.
get the video
ps. I found that it helped to have the right hand (for right hand roll) somewhat limp wristed so the effort was in the hips and not the hands.
Engage only one knee
yep,forgot that one too. Nothing like seeing folks pop plastic keeper pegs off.
More On Paddle Dive
I fought this problem for a long time. I just could not get it in my head not to try and use the paddle to pull myself up. I finally got through this by holding the paddle, (outboard hand) using just my thumb and forfinger. You want the paddle to just lightly skim over the water surface.
I am going to try that exersize this evening. I am finding that I do better after adding a few streaching exersizes daily, sign of getting old.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
Video camera
Once you understand how the roll works, get someone to video your attempts. There can be a big gap between what you think you’re doing and what you’re actually doing.
Many Say Just One Knee
I can roll using just one leg/knee/hip and relaxing the other. However, I do much better by throwing the other hip and leg down as I am doing the oppisite with the active side.
Mark
rollin, rollin, rollin in a river
sorry about that…
i tooka class in a long boat on rolling…then hopped into a ww boat-usually much easier to roll…then with my confidence boosting ww boat exp back to the long boat…
once you get a roll PRACTICE!!!alos practice in any boat you can get into!!!
r