Smart wife
She probably got tired of having to read the mail to find bills for Pash since that’s not his strength… as Sing said, several folks (myself included) replied re rolling a touring boat and having practiced it.
Being able to roll has hugely improved my ability to enjoy kayaking, because it was such an important gateway skill for me to the other stuff I wanted to do. Having said that though, Pash has to read it…
Missed It
Guess I missed the loaded kayak post. Oops sorry about that.
My ex-wife is bi-polar. If you don’t know what it’s like to live with someone like that you’re lucky. She harrassed me for years after the divorce. She broke into my truck last year to leave a little message. That’s one of the reasons I decided to leave Idaho. She’s a beautiful highly educated woman respected in her field and still single. Not every man is willing to tackle the kind of temper she has.
Cheap shot for a cheap shot
Sorry, my post was a cheap shot, as was your comment on the ex-wife. I agree that bi-polar would be h3ll.
Cheap shot or not
We now understands the source of all these post from Pash!
Yeah - didn’t know about the bi-polar
Sorry for any cheap shots there. Someone above said it earlier - this thread has had its day and I should have decided so earlier.
and so the world turns
and these are the days of our lives,
holy crap, is this really still going on.
Pash you need, a hobby, how about golf?
Yeah, but there are those deadly…
… penguins along the bay at Sea World. One might escape the cage! Not sure those Sea Lions lurking about can be trusted either…
Aw come on Kwikle!
You had to know this thread was good for 100 when you first saw it L.
Besides, “crap” for the regulars is fertilizer for the newbies! 
Bipolar isn’t necessarily hell
Can be, but it some cases can be very successfully treated.
We’ll make you a deal Paws
We’ll all shut up if you learn to roll.
Maybe they meant it was a waste of
money to teach you to roll because it is so easy to learn on your own? I unknowingly taught myself to roll on a SOT with thigh straps in surf. The first time I went seakayaking in a SINK in Victoria, I admit, I was afraid to learn rolling, and shocked myself that the movements I had been using in surf helped me to learn a real roll in no time.
I would agree that one should first be comfortable with wet exit and reentry, just so that you can do it while you are learning to roll.
Jim -
“two Cuban companions in 1985 off the Bimini coast”
Are you smuggling Boat People into this country? Next time you’re picking up some refugees, could you bring me a box of Cohibas?
Yeah, could be worse
My Ex is just plain psycho! No nice way to put it. She did and does have her good days - and those are scariest of all!
Think we should extend the offer…
… to MiniPahs - er, I mean Jim too. I might even consider helping Jim with the first half…
Hey Jim, come on up to Newfoundlands
east coast…sea cliffs, deep water, unlimited fetch from the east, large swells, feeding humpbacks, fins, orca’s and seals, and water temps in the summer of about 60 degrees (usually 40 - 60 fahreneit - forgive the spelling, I’m a canadian HAHAHAHA)
Rescues are required (in my humble opinion - as a guide on the north atlantic). I practice rolls and rescues at least one night a week - put aside of rthree hours of just practice - my instructors always taught me to learn as much as you can, that way when one method fails - you have options. I am not just talking about personal protection and rescue (as important as that is)- but what about paddling partners, or just paddlers you come across along your route. I have often come across kayakers who are terrified at getting their heads wet - have absolutely NO roll, and no practice doing assisted rescues. Given our water temps are COLD all year round, efficient rescues are so important. The best (as proven time and again, to reduce time in the water) is the roll. If a paddler cannot roll - here there is no shortage of people ready to teach you the roll.
The thought of ranking how important rescues and rolls are is ridiculous - RESCUE is required. The only substitute for a lack of rescue skills is, unfortunately - drowning, possibly hypothermia.
Just three nights ago, a longliner fishing boat capsized with eight men aboard, four of which drowned, only two bodies of which were recovered. The surface water temp was 14 degrees celsius - all points to being able to rescue yourself when immersed. I realize that a longliner is nothing like a kayak, but a swimmer in the water from a longliner, is the same as a swimmer from a kayak - with no means to get out of the water.
Learn to rescue. Yourself and others…
In the meantime, I’d love to hear a strong argument about why there is no need to practice these skills…Speaking as a guide, that thought is RIDICULOUS. I think that my rescue skills are some of the most important skills I have…which is why I am still in business, and which is why new kayakers (very new) hire guides. Any expierenced or seasoned kayaker (who truthfully considers themselves advanced) knows the value of rescues, whether they be in Florida, Oregon, Maine, Newfoundland or the canadian arctic.
Good luck to all.
Jim.
pash made a good point
I agree with it. “Making stupid mistakes seems to be the big killer”. That sums up everything I said about common sense.
The “foaming at the mouth” crowd wanted to read that Pash said that rolling was a bad thing and not worth learning. He didn’t even imply that. He just said it was not necessary. And look, here we are at 80 posts and no one even argued the salient point. All we see are a bunch of tangents involving some character slams and extreme mis reading of the original post. And That is why I enjoy coming back every once in a while…this is mildly amusing.
It couldn’t be otherwise could it?
Besides my comments aren’t helping. I put this thread over 100 with one of my comments. Unless I go back and delete one.
Straw man argument (repeat)
Repeating myself.
No one said rolling was “essential”. No one said it was a “required” skill.
Nor was anybody truely “foaming at the mouth”.
Again, many people live long and happy lives without rolling. That’s no reason not to try to get a roll.
Also, the point of bringing up WW experience is that it supports the fact that a roll: can be a “basic” skill, is the most effective self-rescue technique; and is usable in “extreme” circumstances.
If the boat is rollable, it’s not that hard to learn to roll. Learning to roll does not mean you can’t or shouldn’t learn other methods.
READ AGAIN
– Last Updated: Sep-15-05 11:26 AM EST –
"The first failure tired him so much that each successive try kept getting weaker. People on this forum emphasize practicing the roll over the importance of practicing re-entry. "
This is the "straw man" argument. I like to see where any post states: "Forget re-entry techniques. Just learn to roll." I haven't seen it in my five years here. Perhaps rolling may be talked about more but the reality (and even for those talk rolling here) is that re-entry techniques are almost always learned first. As one learns to roll, re- entry techniques continues to practiced generally. Generally it is the folks who believe in skills development, including rolling, that make it point to also practice re-entry and other skills.
Then there are some like you... You don't even seem to practice re-entry much from what I have read from you here. Your first line and only line of preparation (and certainly workable) is to stay near shore, on flat water, when it's warm and no more than a breeze. Any variation from those conditions and you stay home. I am glad it works for you. But not every one aspires to your level of high "common sense" and dearth of skills.
sing
"Making stupid mistakes…
“Making stupid mistakes seems to be the big killer”
Yes - exactly.
What everyone (besides Pahs) is trying to tell you is having only very limited and rarely practiced recovery skills IS making a series of VERY stupid mistakes.
Salient enough?
Limiting your skill development is a mistake on two levels:
One is the obvious safety benefit of having more proven/tested options for a variety of conditions/situations. Been through all that above.
The second mistake - which is more applicable to your warm water paddling (and also covered above) - is that you miss a lot of fun and a major expansion of your paddling enjoyment. Yes, the roll is a great rescue - but the payoff for learning is a LOT more than that. Everything gets better. You gain a whole new appreciation for your boat through your improved handling. You can better tap its potential and it does things better. Previously challenging waters become more fun and more paddling opportunities open up. Even doing exactly the same paddles you do now - the experience will improve. You simply don’t know what your missing.
It’s not about need. You may not want to, but that’s your loss. Something to look at as a missed opportunity if you don’t. It’s your choice - but that choice is limiting.
Related question: Have you practiced any assisted rescues? You’re on the water, with others (whether you’re paddling with them or just come across them). They might not have the overabundance of “common sense” you feel you have. Can you help them if needed?
If you haven’t already - at least read Lull’s book. He’s very clear on how - and even more importantly why.