Stardom stuff
The best paddlers I saw in her video’s were Shaun Morely paddling a Valley, and Ken Whiting and Spike Gladwin paddling Necky Chatham’s…
Far too many variables here to associate the boat to the performance. It’s the paddler…period.
Unless They are in a Perception Prodigy
Don’t try THAT big water with a Perception Twisty or whatever they’re called…
It’s the paddler’s
skill level of course. But equally important is the paddler’s sense of confidence in a given boat. Particularly if you’re not yet an advanced paddler you may find yourself more comfortable in a specific boat in rough water than some other. I love my Force 4 in most conditions but when I know it’s really going to be gnarly I gravitate toward my Chatham 16. Both boats have outstanding stability and the 16 is a bit easier to turn quickly. The hull of both is a light V rising to medium chines that carry forward and aft providing superior secondary stability. If I were more skilled I would be comfortable in a Nordkapp LV or an Ellesmere, both of which are more active and playful than the above two and excellent rough water boats, but I’m not.
I don’t think the beam matters
Last weekend I paddled a borrowed Necky Dolphin in the biggest waves I’ve ever been in just off the Stuart inlet. The boat is as wide as a house but i guess the bottom was rounded enough that I could easily lean it howevery I wanted. I didn’t even have thigh straps. The boat surfed well and handed all the ridiculous chos you get in a busy Florida inlet on a beautiful day when the fish are running.
It had a bluff bow and stern but still had a decent amount of glide. Im 5’10" and 220 if that makes any difference. The boat is about 14 feet long and has a lot of rocker so maybe 12.5 waterline length.
I additon to this but I’ve also seen some very different boats do very well in rough water. The Romany, the RTM Disco, and the OK Scupper pro all are great rough water boats but are as different as can be except for the fact that they are around 14 feet long on the water line. Similar to the mariner coaster…hmmmmm.
Let me add this on "Rocker"
From Epic Kayaks website.
I do all my learning from websites and PNet.
http://www.epickayaks.com/news/news/want-rocker-think-again
I think it is legal for me to post this?
Want “Rocker”? Think again!
A common misperception is that sea kayaks require extensive “rocker” or extended-bows to perform well in waves or rough water conditions.
First, let’s look at the difference between rocker and an extended bow – these two terms are often confused…
{Oh, it it is not true about where my “learning” comes from.)
Bill G.
Mt. Pleasant, SC
epic and rocker
That’s an interesting bit on rocker and extended bow shapes. From what i gather Epic’s boat designs are concerned mostly with speed, so sure, they are going to maximize waterline length and minimize bow rake. But i don’t think they debunked any myths about the pros and cons of rocker, especially when it comes to maneuverability.
I think you described it really well
I’m a west coast paddler, and I enjoy some lively water as well. Most of the time, it’s pretty lively out here along the PNW coast. Lots of variety as well in terms of varying types of liveliness. All the conditions you described, as well as some pretty big swell and surf often enough.
I think you described the most important criteria very well indeed; that the boat becomes transparent, and that it’s all about working with the water, and not thinking about “handling the boat”. “In the zone” is an oft used phrase, but it makes all the sense in the world to me, and it’s what allows us to dance with the water, and truly feel at home in the environment. For me, it is nothing short of sublime, and be it calm or crazy, it’s all about “being the sea creature”, and living the joy of it.
Personally, I’ve always preferred the Greenland style boats, and for about the past 10 years, I’ve used GPs exclusively. Aesthetically, and in many ways physically, I find parallels to playing a musical instrument (I’m a 'cellist, so it’s just something I notice about the two activities). Though I could describe these parallels in great detail in terms of physical technique resulting in either musical phrases or phrases of movement carved out of the water, even deeper into the experience is the transcendence of physical technique. No “thought process” of how perform a certain technique at any given moment (nothing has a name anymore; it’s just an extension of breathing, of living, of life).
I just got in from a nearly seven hour night paddle, so you’ll excuse me if I wax poetic just a bit…I hope! 
Melissa
A rough water kayak
– Last Updated: Feb-03-10 8:33 AM EST –
will be designed to not react to what the water is doing and allow the the paddler to have more control over what the kayak is doing with paddle strokes. I have found that kayaks with rocker, rounded hulls and some volume to them are less manhandled by waves and react better to my paddle strokes. I really enjoy paddling my Pintail when the conditions get rough.
But here’s the thing
– Last Updated: Feb-03-10 8:46 AM EST –
Do you want the kayak to "not react" to the water or do you want it to react to *some* of the wave/current action so you can use the force of that wave to your advantage?
There is not one answer - sometimes it may be the former, othertimes - the latter. Unfortunately for those of us who want to have one of each...
Probably most would appreciate a boat that does not react to side beam waves too much and that handles annoying chop in a civilized matter, but that would react decisevely and predictably in following seas so you can surf them rather than fall off the wave in comfort and stability -;). You may want to have a solid edge when leaned to catch currents or waves but that should not cause too much trouble in other conditions...
I agree with Epic
I have been involved directly with the design of some of the boats discussed here, and what Epic says is accurate IMO. BTW, Epics have ample rocker, but it’s true that the extended upswept bows and sterns are more about aesthetics than function. For example, you can cut the last six inches off many popular kayaks bows and sterns and they behave the same but look ugly. I speak from experience here.
The biggest hurdle for folk who genuinely want to understand design concepts is Marketing bullshit.
correct fit
yes. How the paddler fits is important. I could not fit my Anas in Acuta.
Freya?
I wonder what Freya’s take is on this after going around Australia in an Epic, when her previous adventures were in Brit style boats with overhang.
Rudder
Would be interesting, but considering their support for the trip we may not find out what she really thinks. Somewhere along the way she got a bigger rudder than the boat originally came with, I believe.
Mike
Valley notes:
– Last Updated: Feb-03-10 6:03 PM EST –
"A contemporary vision of the British–form sea kayak. The Aquanaut is the culmination of over 30 years experience from highly regarded paddlers and instructors. The modern profiles feature reduced bow and stern overhang, a shallower “V’d ” hull and a little more flare above the water line."
http://www.valleyseakayaks.com/content/boats/composite/aquanaut
The last time I heard anyone who should know better assert that bow and stern overhang enhance a kayak's performance in seas was Derek Hutchinson...
BTW, Greyak posted an image some years ago which showed that a QCC700 and a Valley Aquanaut have pretty much the same rocker.
Yep…
I think folk might benefit from recognizing that many if not most early (even modern) sea kayak designs were more art, trial and error, and adherence to traditional aesthetics…which BTW were secondary to material choices and best methodology given such. Sure tweaks were made, but i think it’s fair to say that it was mostly seat of the pants design and refinement within an accepted “look”. That’s all fine and fun, but many attribute way more to these designs than what reality would dictate.
Designers know what people expect to see and understand that if you tweak the boundaries too much people will freak. Hell, look at the debates on this forum about bow profiles etc. Folk rationalize what they want to believe is best and that fits thie image of what a kayak should be. Narrow piercing ends are in no way beneficial in rough seas but we read that here. Same with the notion that a fuller cross section is more unstable in big seas. Not true, but popular myth. Sea Kayaking is full of myth. look at the best performing rock garden boats and note their full chine profiles etc…
Epic’s information is technically accurate, and they approach the sport from a tech persepective Vs a nostalgic artsy perspective.
"artsy perspective"
Yes, the boat is first an appliance and should function well for its intended purpose. However, I do prefer it when I enjoy the look of my boat 
I’ve liked the look of each of my sea kayaks and still think my first sea kayak (an Elaho DS) is one of the best looking poly boats. I also happen to think the Nordkapp LV is both the prettiest production sea kayak and a real blast to paddle.
Freya will be honest
I wouldn’t worry about her filtering information to keep anyone happy… I suspect she will sing praises of the Epic hull design.
Rocker = stability
– Last Updated: Feb-04-10 9:35 AM EST –
What actually happens with rocker in rough conditions is that the kayak doesn't get suspended across waves and keeps it's belly down in the trough of the wave. Since it is making full contact, it maintains its full stability potential. Whereas a long straight boat gets suspended on it's ends and the belly of that boat is not getting the full pressure of the water and feels a little less stable than it would on a flatter surface. I know from experience that you can maneuver a long straight boat on top of waves easily but many people like the maneuverability of the rockered boat. I always go back to my original premise, paddlers feel better with more stability in rough conditions and that's what the rockerd hull gives you. I don't think it has much to do with maneuverability.
A shorter less rockered boat will feel more stable than a longer less rockerd boat in rough water as in the Epic video. There's trades all over the place here and the paddler is the pilot too.
rocker
a kayak that “tracks on rails” is a good point A to B kayak that doesn’t need a skeg in moderate conditions, but there is a trade off in maneuverability. I’ve had a clipper bow as well and prefer the Greenland overhang bow. The pointed ends also help to transport it.
I went flying down the face of a wave that was longer than my kayak and didn’t nose dive, while the kayaks with little rocker were nosediving and also getting hung up on the beach. Not a big difference but there are advantages and disadvantages to each.
Epic bow wont dive
Careful that you dont confuse shape with volume. I suspect you could chop off the pointy end of your kayak and it would have performed the same for you on that wave. It’s the volume just aft the pointy end that worked for you. Ever watch video of surf ski racers riding big stuff?