disagree
with the generalization that the artistic appeal is a high priority for people who buy Brit style kayaks.
I said something specific about how my kayak performs well for what I do, and that even gets twisted around in to an implication that another kayak doesn’t perform well.
a good rough water boat
is not a particular description of design elements, it’s what happens on the water.
once you get to the general category
of “good in rough water” the distinctions between them reflect personal preferences of the designer/manufacturer and paddler.
those are numbers
– Last Updated: Feb-07-10 9:50 AM EST –
they are not descriptions of actual paddling on the water. The Chathams don't have a fair amount of rocker, you can get some good rough water handling characteristics with short waterline boats without needing lots of rocker.
then there’s that dynamic stuff
I thought my Mariner Express was good in waves but mostly it’s huge bow volume was useful when being tossed like a cork, actual down wave performance where control/stability is desired it wasn’t as good as the Chatham 16. Lots of ways to make spagetti and sauce.
shouldn’t this be under Discussions?
curious to see what it was like to say that.
Falcon … I shoot for the same thing !!
– Last Updated: Feb-07-10 4:15 PM EST –
edit ... Adjustable seat is still sweet for different bodys to get that balance w/ 'X' load.
… and wave / chop shape and size : )
– Last Updated: Feb-07-10 4:25 PM EST –
sheesh ... this post is supposed to be after saltys "marketing B.S. " comment
apologies
A good rough water boat
Good rough water boats always should have a plumb bow, fuller ends, and minimal rocker. Then again, maybe I just think Brit boats look stupid.
Dude that’s your perception
This is a discussion with no right or wrong. relax
You’d have to catch him or her first:)
I’m one of the designers of the Chatham
Spike and I co-designed that kayak. We did it for ourselves and it has zero marketing input. What makes it work illustrates my point. Spike and I made a version without the pointy ends and it worked GREAT. But we knew it needed the pointy ends to appeal to it’s crowd. They make no difference and are not important to what makes that a great kayak. It’s the volume distribution and chine profile. Hint: Where is the 16 fullest in cross section??? As good as it is we designed a prototype surf tour boat that blows it away… But the later would never be a market hit.
I can come forward as I no longer consult with JOI.
I like my
Whiskey 16 for rough stuff. Except it tends to slam down on the reverse side of larger waves, but overall Im very happy how easy it is to maneuver.
however being 16ft and a flatish bottom comes with the price take of speed sacrafice compared to bigger boats…but its a great boat for rough water.
(Note I have only been paddling for 3 years, and “rough” for me is 3.5-4m breaking)
Dagger Alchemy?
The boat that a few of us would love to have to play in surf and rough seas is the Dagger Alchemy. Neither Brit nor long waterline plumb bow, it seems as if it would be great fun.
right, I’m fine
with this… I agree with Jay’s post above about rocker… also think the primary difference is the rudder…
apparently the kayak you are discussing hasn’t even been built yet… and you got some honest feedback to consider…
what I like about it
I never got out in big hairy stuff but what I liked was the sense of security that developed down wave compared to boats that simply broached or became abuptly unstable/loosey goosey.
It’s been built
and works awesome. You will not ever see it go to market though. Was not designed for the market per sey. Input really doesn’t matter in this case. It’s a projest we’ve talked about for years and are doing for our own fun. No constraints
Vindicated?
It seems sea kayak design is on the cusp of the type of dynamic change the WW has seen. I suspect the Whiskey 16 and P&H Aries for example show this, and I suspect share some of your design criteria for rough water.
Not even then…
I’ve encountered Epic 18 and Q700x paddlers at launch sites, and even when we are paddling in the same direction or with the same group these guys have had no interest in any boat but their own. They also simply paddled fast straight in one direction, paused and then fast straight back to the launch.
While most folks I know enjoy trading boats for a bit and playing around, the ‘fast boat’ paddlers I’ve encountered seem to be interested mostly in paddling very fast very straight. I am certain that there are a number of Q700 and Epic 18 owners who enjoy playing with boats. Unfortunately, the ones I’ve met are not.
Form and Function
– Last Updated: Feb-08-10 6:48 PM EST –
Even some very dedicated NDK folk I've known believe the Chatham 16 is the most fun rock gardening, rough water, and surfing sea kayak available. I've heard it referred to as being like a very refined Romany - which is sort of how it felt to me.
It is also a very neat looking boat. While the 'pointy ends' may have no positive impact on its performance, they don't hurt its utility and do enhance the visual appeal of the boat. And that is not a bad thing ;-)