Sawyer Collectable?

I have a 17 year old red, superlite kevlar, 190 Sawyer Cruiser canoe in show room condition (DY design). To my knowledge, it has never been in the water since it was purchased new. Constant indoor storage, its in mint condition. Does this have collector interest?

too bad it has not been paddled
Canoes rarely appreciate unless really rare. And this one is not. I have one.

It is still 17 years old and an older design. Mint canoes like the Dandy and the Nomad that I got from around that time were about a grand…the Dandy a little less as it was older.

I would post a classified here and see what interest you get. Its a fine small tandem…quick for lakes for short trips.

Collectible…probably not.

The problem with collectibles…

– Last Updated: Mar-05-12 3:52 PM EST –

Having been a collector virtually all my life(still am) I have learned a lot.

Some of what I learned it this..........

If a thing is collectible; it is because others want it for "whatever" reason, not necessarily because it is "truly" collectible. There is a vast difference between what someone "perceives" to be collectible, and what is "truly" collectible.

If others want it because of collectibility, either real or perceived; they want it in pristine condition. If others want it because of it's collectibility, either real or perceived; they want it because it is scarce & difficult to find, and not many other "collectors" can say they have one.

Are works of art by Jackson Pollack collectible?
Look at some of his painting & check out the prices. Jackson Pollack was no Vermeer, Van Gogh, Manet, or Monet in my opinion.
But Pollack's go for big bucks.
Someone thinks they're collectible.

Are Beanie Baby's collectible?
They were considered by many to be so; some of them changed hands for a thousand dollars.

Collectibility is very often in the eye of the owner of the real, or perceived collectible.
The sellers of collectibles typically overvalue & overprice their real, or perceived collectibles.
Buyer's of collectibles typically overvalue, and overpay for them.

I really like Blackhawk solo canoes.
I quit buying them when some sellers starting touting them as collectible, and in my opinion, overpricing them.
I personally don't consider them collectible.
Neither do I personally consider any Sawyer canoes collectible.
A first year, pristine example of a Chestnut?
No doubt in my mind there.

Generally speaking, a collectible is 25 years old, or older, and an antique is 50 years old, or older.

My advice; beware the "collectible" tag!
Whatever it is; you're typically gonna pay more for it.

One thing I know for damn sure..........
When Shelby first came out with the Shelby Cobra; I wish I'd had the money & foresight to have bought one two or three of them & stashed them away.

P.S. About 10 years ago I paid 60 dollars for a 5" X 7", paperback book at a used book store. I considered it to be a "collectible" book. It was scarce, in near pristine condition, and by a very popular, science fiction author. I knew some "collectors" would want it. Some people would think me crazy for having paid 60 dollars for a paperback book. Not many would have considered it a collectible. Not many would have paid what I paid for it.
I put the book in a safety deposit box & waited. A couple of years passed; an opportunity presented itself,and then I sold it.
For $5,000.00.
Was it collectible or not? Whether it was or not; I made $4,940.00 on the deal.
The buyer was very happy to have it.
Done deal!

Most collectibles just get looked at; never used.

Things are worth what someone will pay
Considering what you have would seem to be no different from what can be purchased brand new for $2249, except that it’s 17 years older than what could be purchased today, I can’t imagine anyone paying close to the new price for it.

But canoeists are weird, so you never know.

That is not the 190
The 190 is 190 inches long overall. 15 foot 10 inches.

I don’t think anyone is currently making the 190.

You are correct.

Sure, but…
Swift made the 190 as Sawyer of Canada. They had DY redraw the boat, a little fuller, a little longer as the Algonquin 16, 192" long.

One could argue that the Bell NorthStar is/was a slightly longer, 198", Swede-form version with differential rocker and shouldered tumblehome.

We could further posit that Swift’s Keewaydin 16, 192", is the latest iteration, slight Swede-form, differential rocker with tumblehome.

The DY “pocket rocket” concept has evolved over ~3 decades. The 190 was a grand little tandem, but it’s offspring are better boats.

They are also better built, The Sawyer lamination, with roving partials and inner was prone to delamination issues as water penetrated the ~ open fabric and, in some climes, froze and expanded. Sawyer used the same partials for all their tandems, which is why 222 Cruisers always came in under weight and floppy and the 190 was always heavy but rock solid.

Swift’s syntactic cores, Bells all cloth laminates, later wet bagged and Swifts current infused hulls are all significant improvements in construction.

SO sure, the 190 was a neat little hull, along with the Canadian from the same builder and the MRC Malecite one of the better small tandems of it’s day, which is long past.

Been Interesting Reading About It

– Last Updated: Mar-06-12 10:35 AM EST –

Never heard of the hull until a few weeks ago when a friend asked if I would like to buy a new, unfinished Sawyer 190. Now I see the 190 on a couple canoe forums?

Don't know I'd call it a "Collectible," but I'm gonna "Collect" this one and finish building it for only a few c-notes. Don't know if I'd consider ANY composite canoes as "Collectibles." Maybe an old W&C Chestnut, or Seliga?

An Imaginary Collection

– Last Updated: Mar-06-12 11:40 AM EST –

That got me thinking, what would a Collection of Composite Canoes include.

A Sawyer because they were the first designed composites, best early ones were the Tuttle designed Cruiser or Ralph Sawyer designed Super. One could argue for a DY solo too, the DY Special for historical reasons, but ShockWave and SummerSong were better bottoms

A Howie LaBrant designed Moore,best a Venom or Viper, but a Peter Pond would do.

We'd need a Crozier built Jenson mixer, and a Diller designed Savage River and a Newman designed GRE Stinger to complete our marathon racer collection

An OldTown, maybe the Berrigan.

A Mike Galt boat, Dandy or Egret, but the Caper was beautiful, if late to the dance.

A Pat Moore Solo, maybe the BlackHawk Built Proem.

Phil's Zephyr was the best BlackHawk solo.

Curtis probably should be represented by a Kev LadyBug due to follow-on, but the DragonFly is a stunner too.

Bluewater should be represented by a Steve Kannely designed Freedom tandem.

Bell must be represented by a solo, WildFire or Magic.

Mad River's Jim Henry designed Malecite is still one of the better small class tandems after almost 4 decades in production.

WeNoNah, either the Jenson 18 or the Minn II.

Swift probably a Winter's designed Kipawaa as the Yost Kee 16 is too new.

Any collection should have a Hornbeck BlackJack, and thereby should also have a Placid SpitFire with CS trim to display the other end of the spectrum.

Hemlock needs be represented by the Kestral, which is a Curtis Vagabond, the fit smaller folks concept Dave has promoted for over 3 decades.

In Rubber, no collection would be complete without a Warsaw rocket, an OT Tripper, a MRC Explorer or a Dagger Legend. I suppose WW solo's must be represented by a MRC Outrage, a Scarborough designed Dagger Encore, a Mohawk Viper and an Esquif of any sort.

Thanks to everyone responding to my inquiry. I appreciate the insight and additional information about the 190. Puts my mind at ease that it should no longer remain in storage…its time for this canoe to go for a paddle.

I had a 190 and liked it, but my wife
thought it induced too much adrenaline into her day - wasn’t stable enough for her. I just thought it was lively.

Regarding collectability, that depends on your market.

I think that my Blackhawk Zephyr is worth much more than anyone has offered to pay for it, so I still own it. It puzzles me why in today’s market, people will gladly pay more for a used royalex Wenonah Vagabond than for a used composite Zephyr. Baffling to me.

Great list

– Last Updated: Mar-06-12 12:56 PM EST –

But because it is imaginary I would add

Mad River Screamer.
Millbrook ME (John Berry era)
Sawyer Canadian
Ranger 18'6' WW Challenger (Only because of the 2 characters who were running Ranger when it was in Clinton MA behind the tire store)


– Last Updated: Mar-06-12 3:17 PM EST –

You're right, on all counts, 'thou maybe we should include the MRC, Bob Brown designed, Slipper instead of the Screamer as it had more impact on solo boating. [I owned two Screamers; traded my glass one the minute it came out in Kevlar.] And, we should include the Lincoln 5 meter downriver racer too. Like Canadian, it was an Italian concept design, "If you don't win, why finish?" Lots of folks swam out of both.

I’ll give you a hundred fifty bucks for your Zephyr, and throw in a Sawyer cruiser paddle with a 10 inch crack in the blade, and a 27 year old Extrasport pfd.



Now, Dave…
…I wish you hadn’t said that. My wife felt the same about the Jensen 17, Wenonah Sundowner and Mad River Whistler. I felt them to be “Lively,” while she felt I was trying to collect insurance money (LOL)! I hope it’s not “Too lively” for her?

She’ll decide for herself.
My wife feels the royalex Solo Plus is more comfortably stable for us than the Sawyer 190 was.

The 190 might work well solo for you.

Throw in that ugly Galt solo that
you bought out from under me last year, and maybe I’ll consider your generous offer.

Also, I prefer my paddles with two cracks, not just one.

The difference
Is that it’s almost impossible to capsize a 190 with it’s flare, but quite easy to roll a Solo Plus??

Try to find a B/G NorthStar for an ultimate achievement in married harmony for a compact crew.

It’s 1st impressions that count with my
wife. She says that she’s ever dumped in the water, she will never paddle with me again. She mostly paddles her wood strip Wee Lassie or a ruddered kayak, these days.

I’ll be on the lookout for a BG Northstar. Thanks for that suggestion.

Wish I had been nicer to mine
but it has character.

Um and it has filled with water too.