Looking at a couple of choices for an all around cruiser and spotted this one. Not very many reviews on it, so figured it was not real popular though I can’t figure out why. Specs look nice and suggest it could be a good choice. Also looks like it comes with a skeg system that looks alot like the ONNO carbon skeg too.
Anyone? Experiences with this hull/boat?
Thanks
Scott
ikkuma
I bought one to replace my Mariner Express and I prefer the Ikkuma; lighter, more wind neutral, responds to leans more crisply, skeg works better than the sliding seat. My very light, 40 lbs, layup is a bit too light in that the hull flexes a bit more than I would like.
IMO…
Nicest boat Seda makes.
I also have OCD
I know your pain!!
Paddled one for an hour or two
and liked it quite a bit. Handled very nicely in smallish slop paddling along just outside the surf. Cockpit would be too big for smaller paddlers (or big paddlers who like very snug cockpits).
Review here
– Last Updated: Jun-09-08 11:55 PM EST –
Here are some published reviews:
http://www.northwestendeavors.com/ikkuma%20review.pdf
http://www.northwestendeavors.com/Ikkuma17_SK_Apr_07_Hi_Res.pdf
I've owned mine for 5 months now and have no regrets. It seems to have the best combination of tracking and maneuverability. It has great initial and secondary stability.
In addition to the quality carbon skeg, the 2008 model upgraded to an IR Loungeband Seatback and metal toggle bolts. Seda has put quality into the details that other manufacturers often overlook.
On the downside, it should be worth mentioning that mine is currently in the shop undergoing major repairwork. In only four months of normal use, the cockpit coaming formed a crack (or possibly was there all along) and started separating from the deck. This includes the entire seat assembly. Without knowing, I would say the epoxy used did not take to the fiberglass properly. Any case, it is under warranty (Seda offers 3 years). From everything I have heard, Seda has a reputation for excellent quality work so I suspect this is an isolated occurrence. I would be curious to know if other Ikkuma owners have had issues with their boats.
That aside, if you have an opportunity to test the Ikkuma, I think you would be pleasantly surprised.
Thanks!
Thanks for all the good information on the Ikkuma!!
As to that problem with the coaming cracking/separating - that was a problem inherent with Seda boats back in the 90’s - so thought that problem was fixed long ago though this may be a 1 in 10,000 occurence. Will be interested to hear if any others have this issue going forward.
Thanks again!
Seda Ikkuma
– Last Updated: Jun-11-08 3:08 PM EST –
I would echo pbablers comments:
Great boat, tracks & maneuvers well, edges well on those hard chines. Outstanding rough water boat. Not too fast, not too slow. It’s a high volume boat, with a big cockpit, best for larger (200+ lb ) paddlers.
Mine had the worst workmanship of any boat I’ve ever seen. I had cut the seat out & made my own, so I couldn’t return mine. Should have looked the boat over more carefully before purchasing , but it was on sale and they’re hard to find on the east coast. I think Seda went overboard trying to make a light boat, maybe good for a racing boat like a Glider but wrong for a rough water boat. Hull is paper thin; You gotta have some material in there! Hull caved in when side surfed on to rocks; I’ve hit rocks in other boats with considerably less damage.
Bulkheads all leaked like a sieve. Hard to fix, ended up making two new bulkheads and replacing. Cockpit and deck seam cracked. I’ve glassed & repaired everywere, built up the chines (which are a magnet for rock abuse.) I also cut the skeg box out, more trouble than its worth, and the boat doesn’t need a skeg anyway.
I now have a seaworthy but heavy boat. I love to paddle it.
If you want a go-fast boat or a cruising boat , (no rockplay, surfing, rough water stuff, surf landings etc) look elsewhere. If you want a rough water boat, this one is good:I would suggest you monitor workmanship carefully, check & test the bulkheads, really squeeze the cockpit rim, see if you hear cracking noises, maybe custom order boat with extra layup and stay on the manufacturer: I hear they’re approachable and like customer feedback.
Mid-sized Touring boat
– Last Updated: Jun-12-08 3:28 PM EST –
Wow, I didn't know there was a history with the coaming. My prior boat was a Mariner Max - built in 1995, and was a tank that never had any structural issues whatsoever. I sold it because I didn't really know what I was buying and the Max is wayyy too big for me.
Being 5'10"/170lbs, I thought the Ikkuma (with the small seat option) was a perfect fit as a 'MID-sized' touring kayak. I really don't think this is for the 200lb+ group as PeterBr states. I also don't consider this to be an overly large boat. It is definitely not a day boat either. Compared to what I have seen, mid-size seems to be the right description. The cockpit opening is noticeably large, but the thigh braces are well placed.
To add to PeterBr's comments, I did notice that the hull seemed a little thin. In my four months of use, there are minor depressions and bowing/warping. These are more cosmetic than actual issues, I think. My friend's Caribou, even after years of use, is as smooth (except the surface nicks and scratches of course) as the day it was made. Other than that, my Ikkuma seems fine.
I do support PeterBr's comments regarding the Ikkuma as a rough water boat and not so much a fast cruiser. It is not a slow boat, but it is not a record holder either.
Thanks again!
I will select another boat based on QA issues, layup thickness/strength, leaky hatches, coamings, etc etc. Not to mention - Seda boats USED to be a better cost value but seemed to have raised their prices significantly without improving their build process. (a little harsh maybe - but we do slam NDK alot here on these boards and yet they make a great boat).
I will stick with Brit/Canadian boats (NDK/Valley/Impex)I suppose as I know what I am getting there and know they stand behind their products as evidenced by me and many others I have heard from.
Scott
One to consider
CD Caribou S. Used are around and a good fit for your size. I am the same size. Not real fast but capable and very user friendly.
I knew if I made a statement like these…that finally some Ikkuma/Seda folks would raise their voices in righteous anger!!
lol
Thanks for the “other side of the coin” statements.
Note that I personaly know of two instances of the coaming separating on CURRENT Seda boats. (within last 3 yrs) I have yet to see or hear of ONE such occurence with NDK/VALLEY/IMPEX boats to date. (though there could be some, who knows?)
However, I was surprised at the cost increases on the Seda boats despite what must be LOW labor costs in Mexico and simply a drive across the border to deliver them to Seda in San Diego. The margins must be pretty good - as the brits must deal with 1. Low dollar vs Euro 2. Higher labor costs 3. Shipping across the ocean.
How is THAT for discussion board nonsense?
Seda Ikkuma
In response to Mr. Nyre:
I did not buy by an “ultralight” boat: my Ikkuma was in fiberglass layup, and the boat weighed about 45 pounds, and was advertised and sold as such. When a boat is sold in fiberglass construction one expects that the bulkheads will be sound, and that it will take the kind of use common to sea kayaking: But my bulkheads had gaps in the seams that I could pass a chopstick through, the skeg did not work smoothly, and in applying normal pressure on the cockpit coaming it made cracking noises, I have no reason to lie, I love paddling the boat. In contrast, my Necky Chatham 16 is fiberglass layup , is about 49 pounds and has flawless bulkheads, excellent construction, perfectly functioning skeg, bone dry hatches and compartments, and has handled the same surf landings, rough water and rockplay for 3 years. I know the difference between good workmanship and bad workmanship, and I take no joy in reporting that my Ikkuma has bad workmanship
Since I’m accused of lacking common sense , passing on nonsense blown out of context and exploiting the anonymity of a message board, I will reply: I have no axe to grind with SEDA, don’t know much about them: In contrast, you, Mr.Nyre , appear to be friends with the owners, or maybe work or rep for the company, or are otherwise shilling for them, and then have the arrogance to impugn the word of others with no agenda other than to report their experiences and observations. You are doing SEDA no favor by doing so.
A review…
A Paddling.net review…
Submitted by: mblake
04-09-2007
I’ve tried a lot of boats, and I found the Ikkuma to be hands down my favorite, it had a unique amazing mix of good initial stability, extreme maneuverability, and outstanding tracking with skeg down. It was as good or better than all the others I tried in each of these categories.
The Ikkuma is the most maneuverable boat I’ve paddled, even more maneuverable than the Pachena which is 3 feet shorter. In light winds and relatively flat water it tracks well with skeg up, with any rough conditions I’ve seen so far (including 3-4 ft swell, confused choppy water, and strong quartering winds), the skeg down gets the boat to track better than anything I’ve tried. The skeg is a Kevlar foil shape, not just a wedge, and it seems to have very little drag yet gives great tracking.
The boat has excellent acceleration and is quite fast, it’s only 21-22 inches wide. However, it feels more stable than you would think, significantly more stable than any of the other narrow boats I tried.
Comfort: excellent. The seat fit me great, the backband is extremely supportive and highly adjustable. My inseam is 35” and I have size 12 shoes, this is about the max to fit. Seda was quite friendly and willing to customize and was happy to mount the foot rails a bit farther forward for me. I would not recommend the boat for anyone much taller than me, although I am relatively slender so you could be a bit wider and still fit comfortably.
Fit and finish: Excellent throughout. Overall fiberglass and paint is beautiful, hatches fit well, deck lines and fittings top notch. I ordered in Kevlar and ho day hatch, spec was 42 lbs. and that’s what it came in at.
Reviewer background: 50 years old, 6’3” tall, 195 lbs., active in many sports, kayaking actively for 5 years. I was looking to go from novice-intermediate to more advanced, looking for a boat that increases my skills in adverse conditions and was reasonably tame for touring (few days camping).
Paddling conditions: San Francisco bay and occasional Sierra lakes, ocean swell to 4 feet, often choppy confused seas, large ship wakes, strong winds, although often flat and low winds in sloughs.
Prior to this boat I’ve paddled a lot in an Eddyline Merlin XT and my wife’s Current Designs Pachena DX as well as a Pygmy Osprey (20 ft double). In the last year I investigated a zillion boats on the internet and I tried out a lot of boats from local shops, after trying a lot (CD Solstice, Seda Swift, and others) I focused on Greenland style boats that should handle rougher sea conditions including Current Designs Gulfstream, P&H Quest, Eddyline Fathom, and Necky (forgot the model). Closest boat to the Ikkuma was the CD Gulfstream, but the Ikkuma was a bit more agile, tracked better with the skeg, felt a bit more stable. And for me, the Ikkuma was much more comfortable, the Gulfstream (all of the CD boats I tried) seat pan pinched my hip bones painfully. I would have had to cut some if the fiberglass away.
Rating: 10 of 10
NDK coaming separation
mine broke free of the deck half it’s length on the third time in the boat. (purchased last November) i had to fill the gap with about 10 syringes of epoxy all around to be confident in it. it’s sure solid now! yesterday i reinforced the deck by laying in strips of 4 inch carbon fibre tape on the underside, it was so flexy and cracked the hell out of the gel coat…
Follow Up
Hi Peter Brady,
You may not have an axe to grind, but that’s because I seem to have found it firmly lodged in my back.
I am sorry to hear of your problems with your Ikkuma, but surprised to find out via this thread. You’ve certainly never called or emailed us to tell us you had an issue, much less allow us to fix it. I see you didn’t register the boat via warranty card or online, which would have given you a place to complain as well. Heck, I think you even stopped by our shop here in San Diego once without bringing anything up like what you’ve said here.
Technically, your warranty would be still valid even if you did cut the seat out – we’re reasonable guys, paddlers even, so clearly a leaky bulkhead on a new boat is our issue regardless of what you’ve done to the seat. I called New England Small Craft, and they confirmed you reported some leaks on the bulkheads, and they said they offered to fix them as well but I understood you didn’t take them up on it. They also did not submit any warranty claim. We rely on a dealer to work with a customer since they are in a position to see the boat, so again - if we’re in the dark, we can’t help you or the dealer out.
From shipment data, you have the 2nd boat out of the mold, which we sent ASAP to the east coast as a demo boat. I don’t tell retailers how to sell, but if it was on sale, I understand why, and yes it was probably rougher than later boats. The original curved bulkhead was very difficult to install, so we redesigned the rear bulkhead after shipping the first few boats because we had leakage issues if we didn’t get it aligned perfectly. All of the boats with the old bulkhead style were either reworked if they hadn’t left the warehouse, or we fixed them at our expense if there was an issue. The handful of these early boats initially went to demo fleets, they did not go to retail customers. Once the problem was identified we took very rapid action to quantify the scope, improve future production, and resolve any issues we knew of.
As far as too heavy/too light, we’re pretty open to building a boat for a customer’s use. If you want to rock garden, toss it off your car or seal launch like an east coast Tsunami Ranger, that’s great – we’ll build you a battleship. I find it very easy to add weight to a boat, throw a couple more layers in and it usually does it. 9 out of 10 folks I meet at events ask about weight, and how much lighter we can build it.
The first year, the skeg was optional, so the unfortunate thing in your tale is really that if you like the way the boat paddled after a demo, everything else we could have delivered if you had decided to order it custom and waited a few weeks. It would not have been on sale though, and for some paddlers that’s what drives the decision.
I am glad to hear that you like how it paddles, that’s really the hardest part of a new design, and one we can’t handle through a warranty process.
Best regards
John Gish
Seda Kayaks
costs
Yawn. Sort of trolling nonsense but no offence, it’s a common question. Our boat prices are what they are, there are many cheaper alternatives ranging from used boats to lower cost materials or other manufacturers.
As you’re curious, it’s the overhead that’s expensive – advertising, traveling to tradeshows, liability insurance, that’s where the costs come in and that a low labor cost doesn’t impact. Our case is unique, we save on labor but we are in California - not the cheapest state for business or living. Anyway, if you want to drive our truck back n’ forth it ain’t that fun really - come on down and try it, bring your passport nowdays though.
Our cost for materials is the same as anyone else barring Chinese manufacturers, and material costs have been increasing.
On your thesis, one would expect that Chinese boats would be much less than even ours given a labor cost 1/10th of Mexico, but Necky/Point 65/Epic aren’t really that drastically lower either due to the same drivers – similar overheads, and Nigel Foster doesn’t want to work for $2/day! Necky probably has fantastic economies of scale in China given their size…but it’s that overhead kicking in again that drives your retail price.
cheers
John
Very Classy…
Of SEDA to reply in a forum, when the original complainer didn’t even contact the manufacturer…
SEDA=1, Orig Poster=0.
People need to be appropriate and reasonable…
Seda Warranty
It is common in manufacturing to have the occasional issues in their product. It is how a company supports the product after the sale that speaks volumes.
Sure, my coaming blew out in four months of use. I wasn’t happy about it. If this was a common occurrence, it would be a real issue. But that is not the case - at best, it seems to be an isolated issue. SEDA took care of the repair right away. NWOC in Seattle, where I purchased the boat, provided me with an Ikkuma loaner in the mean time. Having just received my boat, the repair looks very good. In all, an inconvenience, but not a hassle. I’m not so sure anyone can get that level of service and response time from Canadian/UK manufacturers.
That said, the Ikkuma is a design that I enjoy and would recommend. SEDA is a company that has been a pleasure to work with. In a cutthroat industry such as this, SEDA has to put up with a lot of shit. Kudos to them for kicking it back once in awhile!
Ikkuma 15
Tried one at a demo day on flatwater. It felt like it would make a great play boat. Pretty good speed for a short boat. Edged nicely. Very agile. After all the boats I demo’d, I kept coming back to this one.
No day hatch. Literature says its designed for paddlers 100-150 pounds, but it can handle 300 lbs payload.
It had a pretty roomy cockpit for the paddler weight it was designed for. I’m about 185 and 5’ 11" and if anything it was a little roomy.
I would like to hear if anyone has tried this boat in rough water. Someday I may get the chance to try it in conditions and I may buy one.
I think it would be great in rock gardens and surf play where it’s short length and manueverability would be appreciated. I liked it also because it wasn’t overly rockered, but had moderate rocker with a flat mid section. It has a nice hull design. Kind of a different mix than than you see out there on most short boats.