Hello I appreciate any help and advice in this matter. I have been kayaking for the past 10 years mostly doing Backcountry calm River trips and Alpine Lakes in mountainous areas. Last year I went to the Everglades near the Gulf of Mexico and attempted to paddle out to a backcountry site referred to as a chickee. The waves we’re too big I did not have a spray skirt, my kayaks filled with water eventually after paddling for 2-3 hours luckily I was able to get to shore after bailing out twice.
I would like to go explore the Everglades and near the Keys again in a few months. My question is do you think if I bought a very nice spray skirt for my sit inside recreational kayak(not a long sea kayak just a normal rec kayak that cost only $3-350 when i bought it) do you think that will solve my water issue. Do you know if people that kayak Open Water in a sit inside recreational kayak with a spray skirt? Most of the trips I do now on rivers are maybe 10 to 12 miles a day on the Open Water; I would plan roughly the same trips 5-10 miles (a little shorter as I reconize how slow my kayak moves through choppy water) through Open Water to get to a Backcountry site.
I understand that there comes a point where waves are too big for any kayak. I would plan to only go out if the water was somewhat calm when I was out before and fell into the water the waves where Maybe a foot-and-a-half tall. I will look into purchasing another kayak if need be but what a good spray skirt solve the issue of being able to paddle 5 to 10 MI in open Waters such as the Gulf of Mexico on an average day no storms no high winds but still waves to paddle through. I hope you are enjoying your Summer Wherever You Are
How does you and your kayak behave in a capsize? Does it fill up with water and sink, or does it have built-in flotation? Are you able to get back into the kayak after a capsize?
These are the two first things to look at when trying to establish the “seaworthiness” of a kayak in open sea.
I paddle the Everglades National Park and the Gulf waters all winter long in a long skinny sea kayak., but I wouldn’t hesitate to paddle it in my nine foot long Perception Keowee as long as I had the skirt with me. I used to paddle the Atlantic off the North Carolina coast and often would venture many miles off shore all by myself.
On the old P-net, I once made the statement that if I had to choose between only having a skirt with me or a PFD with me, I would choose the skirt, and naturally I was jumped on with all kinds of nasty remarks, I still stand by that, but naturally have both.
The first thing you should do is get yourself a VHF radio. I don’t leave shore with out mine and monitor the weather on it daily basis. They not only give you the hourly forecast, but also the height of the waves.
No matter what I have planned, if the forecast is calling for windy conditions I’ll cancel out of a trip. (life is too short to gamble ! )
Last winter we had a week long camping trip planned to explore the back country Lake Ingraham area at Cape Sable with our base camp at Flamingo. After arriving at Flamingo and getting set up the forecast had changed and for the next four days there were supposed to be winds higher then I like to paddle in so we cancelled out, and did day trips in land. The next day we heard that there were gale force winds at the Cape.
Also as someone above mentioned make sure your little rec kayak has flotation.
The Everglades and ten thousand Islands area is a wonderful place to paddle and explore, but make sure you do it smart
A rec boat is not going to handle bigger conditions properly compared to a sea kayak. Things like flotation and be improved as above, but the boat itself is not designed for those conditions.
But if you are going out by yourself, you also need to consider whether you could get back into your boat in a capsize. I have seen a lot of people try in a rec boat even with flotation added, and the lack of things like deck lines to grab can render this impossible for many. Until you check out whether you can do this near land you should not be offshore.
Be aware that some folks commenting may be accustomed to having someone else with them when they paddle. I paddle solo these days and have severely altered my habits to make sure I make it home OK. Even if I am with someone, if they represent a situation that would make rescue difficult we don’t go offshore.
You can limit the damages by being terribly conservative about when you go out. But if you are new to bigger water that will take some time, because you need to learn weather patterns like offshore winds that can change a lot and are typical over bigger water. And carry a good weather radio for alerts.
One thing I’ll add is that rec boats typically have large, rec-style cockpit openings rather than the small snug openings of sea kayaks. This means that even if you can find a spray skirt to fit it will be large, typically made from thin nylon fabric (not heavy duty neoprene) and will most probably collapse under the first decent sized wave that hits the boat.
I’m having a difficult time taking the poster seriously. Either this person is very lucky to still be among us, or he/she is being facetious. One more possibility is that he/she is being serious and is still bullet proof like most of us were when we were yutes.
I have a 13.5ft recreational kayak with air bag forward and a skirt. Sure I’d take that out if the weather was ok. I often use it in the surf cause it turns better than my 17ft sea kayak. However not all recreation boats are the same. Mine has a 33 x 17" cockpit similar to the sea kayak. The rec boats with the 56" x17" cockpits will implode the skirt when hit with a big wave, roll, etc. Battons in the skirt help but don’t always work. No I would not take my rec boat out camping. Airbag takes up gear space and I have better boats for touring.
I have been in Florida Bay, Flamingo in the Everglades, when the wind and wave made the 17ft sea kayak a challenge… If you camp what will the weather be tomorrow. Or this afternoon during the thunderstorm at 3pm?
Note a “chickee” is a dock structure on a camping site.
The cost of your boat tells us very little about the design of your hull or equipment. Except that it might be considered a big box pool toy by many. Either way I remember a Native American museum guide telling us canoes are seaworthy boats. His people paddled them everywhere. No comment on fatalities or success rates. Sure you can take your recreational kayak out there and maybe you’ll make it.
You can paddle a rec kayak safely in the Everglades during most conditions. The wind almost always comes up at ten am and you have to be prepared for one to two foot seas daily… This makes the skirt a necessity but its not bombproof… I used to take my Keowee out on Long Island Sound which has a similar chop… Only nylon skirts were available and there was always a risk of them getting dumped on by a wave and pulled off. If you do go on the Gulf it is imperative to have a radio and bail at the first mention of seas and wind. You just have to be more conservative than someone in a sea kayak
You are right in that your speed will be reduced… TIdes can run hard though the range is not high… And they never stick to the predictions… A couple of years ago there was a couple in a couple of rec kayaks going on our route to Jewel Key… The tide was running in hard and before getting through Sandfly pass they were knackered out and in tears… We all just visited with them and explained that the tide would turn in an hour and they could make it…
Never tie stuff on top of your kayak… That makes it unstable. Most rec kayaks are flat bottomed and do not behave in a stable manner in waves.
I will disagree with Jack L that I think you need to wear your PFD… Why? Because you might get stuck on something and have to get out of your boat. It is disheartening to step out and sink to your hips in mud… To get out you have to swim out… and hanging on to your yak is challenge enough while you extract your feet. If you capsize and you are in a bay it is likely that you can stand up…if you can get solid ground under you. Depths are usually not over three feet and in most cases much less… Which is why the Wilderness Waterway has markers for powerboats; so they don’t run aground.
It is an odd feeling to be half a mile out in two feet of water. Make sure you have a chart and take special care in “Passes”… Those are deeper water areas.
Canoes are what I paddle… Yes Native Americans paddled them and the first water trail : The Maine Island Trail was a route for canoeists. And I do go solo in the Everglades in my canoe. I was taught ocean paddling in a canoe thanks to AMC Boston Whitewater which ran trips out of Maine. I switched to kayaks when they started appearing late 80’s… so sleek and less windage.
You need flotation front and back… Remember there is no fresh water and you need to carry at least 8 lbs of water a day for your camping. Most rec kayaks are simply too small volume wise to securely and dryly carry your camping gear and water once you add floatation… Too heavy a load including you and the gear makes you sink too low in the water and voila what comes in? Water? If you are too low even a spray skirt is not going to help.
Oh that radio! Yes. Wear it… Not in the kayak. On you. And be prepared to plan your trip to avoid chickees if possible. You have to file a float plan but if you are on a ground site and get winded ( marooned) it is less of an issue if you must stay an extra day for wind.
I find it commendable that you plan short distances… But most campsites in the ENP require at least ten miles a day between sites. A better plan might be to go out of Everglades City or Collier Seminole in the 10 000 islands. There are plenty of closer together sites between EC and Cape Romano just north of the Park
And there is a decent sea kayak rental place in Everglades City… You might consider that. It would increase the enjoyment quotient.
I will disagree with Jack L that I think you need to wear your PFD… Why? Because you might get stuck on something and have to get out of your boat. It is disheartening to step out and sink to your hips in mud… To get out you have to swim out… and hanging on to your yak is challenge enough while you extract your feet. If you capsize and you are in a bay it is likely that you can stand up…if you can get solid ground under you. Depths are usually not over three feet and in most cases much less… Which is why the Wilderness Waterway has markers for powerboats; so they don’t run aground.
It is an odd feeling to be half a mile out in two feet of water. Make sure you have a chart and take special care in “Passes”… Those are deeper water areas.
Canoes are what I paddle… Yes Native Americans paddled them and the first water trail : The Maine Island Trail was a route for canoeists. And I do go solo in the Everglades in my canoe. I was taught ocean paddling in a canoe thanks to AMC Boston Whitewater which ran trips out of Maine. I switched to kayaks when they started appearing late 80’s… so sleek and less windage.
You need flotation front and back… Remember there is no fresh water and you need to carry at least 8 lbs of water a day for your camping. Most rec kayaks are simply too small volume wise to securely and dryly carry your camping gear and water once you add floatation… Too heavy a load including you and the gear makes you sink too low in the water and voila what comes in? Water? If you are too low even a spray skirt is not going to help.
Oh that radio! Yes. Wear it… Not in the kayak. On you. And be prepared to plan your trip to avoid chickees if possible. You have to file a float plan but if you are on a ground site and get winded ( marooned) it is less of an issue if you must stay an extra day for wind.
I find it commendable that you plan short distances… But most campsites in the ENP require at least ten miles a day between sites. A better plan might be to go out of Everglades City or Collier Seminole in the 10 000 islands. There are plenty of closer together sites between EC and Cape Romano just north of the Park
And there is a decent sea kayak rental place in Everglades City… You might consider that. It would increase the enjoyment quotient.
Where did I every tell the OP not to wear his PFD ?
The issue you have to consider most is You not the kayak. If you are paddling alone, do you have enough skill to get a flooded rec boat back to shore with high off shore winds, chop and opposing tides, that’s a pretty common scenario on open coastlines. Shallow water can be deceiving and you can get violent waves because of shoaling. Can you handle the boat in worst case seas? If you are going to paddle by your self make sure you have decent equipment you can afford. A decent used sit on top would be much safer than hoping a large rec kayak skirt holds when you misjudge the winds and waves. You can remount it instantly and not have to worry about flooding. I would seek out other paddlers in clubs etc and get many ocean trips under your belt before you do much solo paddling in a rec boat.
Thank you I appreciate your words of caution. No I am not being facetious lol I was very glad to make it back to shore after that trip ( I have had some other close stories backpacking to share another time that were wake up calls) I was paddling to shark point chickee and fell over in between Garfield bite and snake bite. I am thinking about buying a sit-on-top kayak now but if investing the money maybe I should just get a sea kayak touring type. This upcoming trip in a few months I will be staying 3 nights in Key West and two nights near Key Largo if anyone has suggestions on places to paddle that are close to shore and where I could possibly to see marine life, reef, or shipwreck. I have been studying some places online.
Then I plan to head to Big Cypress to spend the day paddling on halfway Creek or Turner River. The backcountry trip I was planning this time around to be in the 10,000 Islands… I agree with the suggestion by kayamedic that 10,000 islands has closer Island to paddle towards compared to the flamingo area. I was looking at jewel key tiger key or rabbit key close to the gulf of mexico visitor center. Do you believe I would need a touring kayak for that trip.
I have brought my sit inside kayak all the way to shore by swimming in a large lake a couple of times, and I was able to get back into it when I tipped over in the Everglades but I was able to stand on my tiptoes in the water. It has been a long time since I have practiced a true self rescue in this kayak where feet can not touch the bottom, empty kayak and get back in. I am very tall and with my weight it has been very stable. My issue in the everglades last time was just the waves splashing inside and water from my paddle. Maybe I will invest in a sea kayak for this trip. I am 27 grew up in Boy Scouts doing high adventure and since I was 20 I have been doing solo Backcountry hiking trips 25-35 miles and a couple kayaking river trips solo in the Smoky Mountains and lakes from the rockys to the east. I love the fact that backcountry vacation are beautiful get us close to nature and relatively inexpensive. The last trip to everglades where I fell in has me wanting to be prepared for this run and brought me to the forums. Maybe my sit inside kayak wont even function well enough to explore the keys for the 5 nights I will have there.
Again I appreciate your years of advice from your experiences.
With some patience you can find decent used sea kayaks on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace for not much money. I have bought 3 each under $500 and often with gear.
I agree with SD’s observation of offshore winds and opposing tides. But in 15 years I have never been forced offshore by those in the Glades; We have in the occasional high wind from the east found that the tide was altered and the water was blown out… I spent two hours on Lostmans River delta because the wind had done this ( This is where my advice came about stepping out of the boat) and we met another party who had to slog 1/4 mile to Sunday Bay Chickee( One of the reasons it was dismantled…water access was not reliable). . Its the west and north and SW winds that come in after a front on an outgoing tide that make the roughest stuff. Unlikely to be blown out,
Curiously the NPS rents kayaks in EC. Sit on tops( most do not go all the way to Jewel). Ivey House rents sea kayaks.
Now lets get to Turner Rive or Halfway Creek… The latter is incredibly scenic and also unsuitable for anything over 16 feet. The loop part of the trip from the canal off 41 is incredibly twisty and there are all sorts of things that need maneuvering around at low tide. It is always passable sometimes… I say that cause after Irma we were the first on record to get through it… It gets little maintenance but park staff had been able to get most of the blowdown out but it took two years and I guess when we went they weren’t finished. We had two 15 foot boats. If you are going one way on either river you can arrange a shuttle from Ivey House.
Turner River is mostly straighter and more heavily used.
Tiger or Picnic involves kayaking through strong tides in passes… Jewel and Rabbit have sneak routes. Again its the chart that matters… A GPS is helpful in taking back routes.
a trip from Flamingo to Shark Point Chickee is pretty exposed and I wouldn’t expect anything other than waves breaking in your rec boat.
Another plus for a sea kayak is that you can get a proper neoprene skirt that is tight and waves can’t implode it.
You could also rent. Glades Haven in Everglades City on the Gulf Coast rents sea kayaks, sit on tops and 16’ Mad River Adventure canoes. We rented both kayaks and a canoe from them on a trip there some years ago to explore both inland and out along the coast. They have a dock on a canal that is accessible both to a river going up into the Glades and to the sea via Chokoloskee Bay into the Thousand Islands.
Interesting note - sit on top kayaks can be used in higher level waters. You don’t necessarily need to go for a sea kayak for what you are looking at. In Florida heat, a sit on top might be better for you. But all your gear needs to be stored in dry bags or similar (though, truthfully, hatches in sea kayaks are not necessarily dry, so items kept i hatches also should be keep in dry bags or the like).
@willowleaf said:
You could also rent. Glades Haven in Everglades City on the Gulf Coast rents sea kayaks, sit on tops and 16’ Mad River Adventure canoes. We rented both kayaks and a canoe from them on a trip there some years ago to explore both inland and out along the coast. They have a dock on a canal that is accessible both to a river going up into the Glades and to the sea via Chokoloskee Bay into the Thousand Islands.
Irma changed Everglades City forever. While they were scheduled to reopen in 2018 I saw no rentals nor any evidence of kayaks or canoe in 2019. There used to be a restaurant nearby… Its gone… That area was flooded hard
Gunnar.kayak
If you want some good info on the Everglades, 10,000 islands, all of the Keys, Turner River, etc
check out our Google web site.
It has all the info you need and more
If you are in the keys after October give us a shout and if you want you can join us for a trip through some mangrove tunnels and open water where we almost always see sharks, rays and possibly a Green or Hawksbill turtle along with a bunch of other sea fish and critters
KM, that’s terrible news about Everglades City. We really enjoyed the visit there and am sad to hear they lost so much. I loved the fried clams and key lime pie at the restaurant attached to Glade Haven’s complex. Should have occurred to me that they could not possibly have escaped Irma’s wrath at that location.
@willowleaf said:
KM, that’s terrible news about Everglades City. We really enjoyed the visit there and am sad to hear they lost so much. I loved the fried clams and key lime pie at the restaurant attached to Glade Haven’s complex. Should have occurred to me that they could not possibly have escaped Irma’s wrath at that location.
Yeah. That restaurant is gone. So is the Gulf Coast Visitor Center. They are rebuilding now after two years in a trailer. What I missed most in 2018 was the hardware store… I relied on it for charts and insect repellent and sunscreen… It opened up just last Feb.
Havana Cafe however is thriving… my happy place
