Virtual Paddler??
Maybe the profile doesn’t exist because the paddler doesn’t exist. It’s all virtual.
Of course, we probably won’t have to splash to cool down after we’ve spent 2 hours trying to re-enter our boats while this paddler demonstrates the proper splash technique for cooling your legs on a SOT. The heat is also virtual.
I can’t wait to hear what some of the better ww paddlers have to say about his river points.
If you have any skill rotocooling
an option in a sink or a sot if you’ve got straps. Unless your big 27.5 inch boat is too wide to roll.
The Verde is class 2- and easy 3 in February. You are such a stud (muffin). I’m trembling just thinking about your massive skills.
Here is a link for the curious
http://www.raftinfo.com/verde.htm
Also love the keel line on that illusion! a really great boat for technical water. Link the the illustration:
http://www.kayaker.com/new/products/boat.asp?type=sit-on-top&ID=92
Love that…
…part about the sutability of that river for no experience paddlers in “duckies”!
Should name that Illusion: “Hoover” (since obviously paddling in a vacuum).
Finally Came Around To This Thread…
Wow… It’s as I expected. 
Hey, D-Nice, whatever you choose - SINK or SOT – don’t think about going out in Feb until you logged some time under the hull and even lessons. Play around while it’s warmer, rent different boats, see what you like. There’s no law (except from extremists on both sides) that says you can’t start with SOT and then get a SINK, or vise versa. Either way, you’ll have to develop some skills before heading out in Feb in the Great Lakes when the margin of error is much thinner for mishaps.
sing
ok
lets boil this down. do you want speed, or ease of getting in or out?? its that simple.
Dunno…
I think one can generalize that way but it’s not all that black and white either, especially when you consider the surfskis or even the Shearwater kayak that SantaCruzmidwife flashed a pic of awhile back. These boats would be faster than the average SOT (and “average” SINKS for that matter). They probably aren’t easy to reenter in rough water and the paddler would probably be better off rolling them. And, they can be rolled with the thigh straps option.
sing
SOT’S and Eskimos
Haven’t seen many Eskimo’s in SOT’S lately!
complacency
"a feeling of contentment or self satisfaction, especially when coupled with an unawareness of danger"
It is possible to be happy with any level of skill in a kayak as long the most basic skill, good judgement, is used. Sometines I rant against the notion I see here which mandates EVERYONE MUST LEARN ALL SKILLS TO PERFECTION. I believe this sport can be enjoyed at many levels, not just the highest.
For example, I am not currently interested in learning a roll with my SINK. I don’t feel I am being complacent because I paddle in good conditions (some would say ideal) and I feel “content and self satisfied” with my current skills under the conditions I choose to paddle in. I would choose a SOT for bigger waves and colder water OR learn SINK skills for those conditions. Take your pick. But if you just want to paddle cold water without rolling and wet rescue skills of a SINK…THAT IS OK…mount a Sit-On-Top and enjoy it. You are not being complacent and I don’t see any reason to critique the choice to use a sit-on-top over a SINK. I still believe the SOT is inherently safer.
A voice of reason
Pretty rare in the SOT/SINK debate. Thanks Sing!
Given indigenous technology
(no dry suits), that would be pretty silly. also hard to build a Skin of frame SOT.
yeah
but he didnt mention a Surf ski…
SOT vs. SINK
Although I still consider myself only an advanced novice, I’ve built a few strippers and have paddled a number of boats on Lake Erie, from the Q700 to the barge-like Hobie Mirage. SOT’s may be easier to re-enter but that won’t help much if you just keep flipping over. A lot of SOT’s, because of their wide beams and flat hulls are NOT very good for short period waves and chop, typical conditions on the Great Lakes. For example, on Lake Erie you can get 2+ foot waves with a crest to crest period of 5-7 feet. I’ve experienced these kicking up from dead calm to whitecaps in under 15 minutes. Not big by ocean standards, but challenging for me at my current skill level. So, whatever you’re paddling, SINK or SOT, it needs to be a hull that does well in those conditions. The Q400, Q500, Q700, OneOceanKayaks Storm, Scupper Pro TW, Mariner II all seem to handle those conditions fine, especially the Mariner II and the Scupper Pro TW. Hobie Mirage? Forget it. It just wallows out there compared to the other boats I mentioned. I suspect other wide and flat SOTS would have similar handing characteristics.
I wouldn’t dream of getting out on any of the Great Lakes in winter waters unless you’ve spent tons of time doing so during the warm months.
Shearwater
– Last Updated: Sep-22-04 1:28 PM EST –
I have the Shearwater in Kevlar. With a little practice it is not that hard to re-entry. I left it in the pool one weekend and I have it down pretty well.
I was interested in learning to roll it, but Tsunami Chuck couldn't roll it with thigh straps, so I figure that is a lost cause for me.
I really like the Shearwater, but it is fast toruing boat, not a rough water boat. Still looking for its rough water cousin, the Nomad. Even more rare than the Shearwater.
People think that SOTs are inherently more stable, but slower than SINKS. I think the opposite is true. The lower center of gravity on a SINK makes it more stable. SOT manufacurers over compensate for this by making them 28" wide to appeal to beginner market.
There are some high performance SOTs out there, but mostly from South Africa.
It ain’t personal!
I didn’t take your comments as a personal insult and I’m sorry if my response came across that way. But I did think you were responding to Barge’s overstatement of the safety case in favor of SOTs with a certain amount of overstatement in the other direction, and I wanted to point that out.
'Nough said.
A lot of nonsense!
– Last Updated: Sep-22-04 1:28 PM EST –
Purposely, when people compare Sink sv. Sot because the great majority of p.net's are Sink paddlers (not Sea Kayakers of salt water - only a few) they compare recreational SOT's vs. touring or performance Sink's, and of course, SOT's look like a bunch of barges!
Why don't they compare???:
Rec. SOT vs Rec. Sink
Performance Sot Vs Performance Sink
Racing Sot Vs Racing Sink
To my eyes, although there are a great variaty of Sink's, most of them, a bunch of barges. Of course, after paddling the Isthmus for quite a while and now the Mako, the only Sink that might fulfill my needs and wants might only be a ICF K1 for flat water and/or down river. However, for rough water, give me a "Fast" SOT (preferably, South African one) with a wing paddle!
Regards,
Iceman
PS: I am getting old to carry 50lbs of gear :D
touring SOTs
– Last Updated: Sep-22-04 1:40 PM EST –
Owning a sea-SINK, I noticed on a Connecticut shore paddle that rec and sea- SOTs outnumbered SINKs substantially. One reason given by a winter paddler who can roll was still the worry about dying from gasp relfex despite a roll. I learned that there are fast touring SOTs in kevlar and plastic-SOTs are not just rec. If I was an avid winter paddler, I'd probably seriously ponder such a touring SOT (Cobra Expedition for one)
He did in line two of his post. (NM)
Hey BARGE!
I thought I recognized these comments from one of your earlier post on this same subject. (Oct, 2003.
I am sure you will recognize it as well since you got hammered fairly well back then too.
hmmm… lets see:
SINK vs SOT
Forget the SINK
ESPECIALLY! for fishing
SOTs are roomier
SOTs are more comfortable
SOTs don’t have to bend quite as much at the waist
SOT pilots don’t spend 5 minutes tediously attaching their sprayskirts upon every disembarkment/stop/portage … you flop in and go.
SOTS don’t need bilge pumps
SOTs don’t need bulkheads
SOTs don’t need floatbags
SOT pilots don’t have to carry ‘paddle float rescue’ devices
SOT pilots don’t need spray skirts
SOTs are safer
SOT pilots don’t have to have two companions along to hold the boat while he gets back in in waves
(SINKers can’t travel alone without being ‘irresponsible’ - these are their quotes)
SOT pilots can jump out of the boat and climb back in in seconds … some SINKers CAN"T get back in - unless they swim the boat to shore
SOT pilots don’t have to learn specialized techniques like the ‘Eskimo roll’ and ‘paddle float re-entry’.
My Heritage Exped is very dry … I don’t sit in a puddle unless I take a wave from a funny angle …(it only happens when I don’t care if it happens)
… and it drains in seconds when I DO take a wave.
and if you are paddling in colder temps … then a fuzzy rubber suit or top (or bottom?) is the equivalent of having a sprayskirt … and makes you safe(r?) from the -hypothermia- standpoint.
As Greyak said, you’re still delusional, and medical attn should be sought to cure your chronic foot in mouth disease.
Take some classes
Chuck
If this thread going the way it is
it could end up on Bicker & Banter
delusional my butt
you boys are just horrifed that somebody exposes your outdated technology that you have proudly spent sooooooooooooo much time learning and reading and practicing and learning and reading and practicing and learning and reading and practicing to use
It just horrifies you to think you wasted that much time practicing and studying things that just aren’t necessary any more.
See any Model T’s on the road lately ?
… and surfskis will smoke your SINKers anyway
… and TWO HOURRRRRRS ??? … damn straight puppy
I can lead you to read two cases (from my state- within the last year) where thats EXACTLY what happened … (one quite recent as you may remember - Lk Superior - father/son - sons dead)
Yeah … these people should have spent about 40 hours in pools over the last year … taking lessons and practicing the backhanded breadstick eating squirrel rescue technique … and the underhanded triple axle floatbag toss rescue … and the bend-em over backwards and spank-em rescue … etc etc etc
those silly kayakers that don’t want to spend their lives learning how to save their lives because they paddle boats that are more difficult to survive in … they are really quite silly and irresponsible
… orrr … they coulda just had a SOT
time in boats ? … I bet I spent more hours in kayaks than 95% of the people on this board in the last two years … or at least … those above the Mason Dixon line.
I’d say 200 to 250 hours … as a conservative estimate
Am I highly skilled ? (by SINKER standards)
… NO … have no desire to - either
… and … I am cutting and pasting and refining my responses … (both of them … thanks for bringing up my old one)… for future newbie queries
… newbies that don’t necessarly want to join the Model T Kayak Eskimo Army … need to know the facts
Try and spank me if you want … read’em and weep
… lol
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