my hat is off to you
very effective slap in the face to anyone who prefer SINKs, although you paint with a too brush.
I agree with nearly all your points and I believe SOT’s are safer. No argument from me there. I was a SOT paddler for about 7 months until I began paddling a QCC 700. I much prefer the experience, the feel of the SINK over the slow moving SOT. As for skis, from what I read, they may be fast but have far less less stability than my QCC.
If you are that afraid of the water (and maybe you should be up there) stay on SOT’s. Nothing wrong with that at all. But don’t expect many of the SINK paddlers to lower their upturned noses at your “beginner boat” just because it is safer. The higher skill seekers are longing to belong to the traditional kayak cult where death defying acts such as rolling in dangerous surf are part of the attraction.
This thread is definately on route
to Bicker & Banter, where is my buddy jmann.
Good One!
"The higher skill seekers are longing to belong to the traditional kayak cult where death defying acts such as rolling in dangerous surf are part of the attraction. "
Which "tradition?" I like Greenland boats for touring but they really stink in the surf. Nope, I am in a plastic surf kayak and using a light weight carbon fiber Euro paddle rather than my "twig." :) "Death defying?" For you, yes. For me, maybe. For others, it's a "walk in the park." :)
BTW, I have no objection to what anyone chooses to paddle. Afterall, I am not responsible for them, nor they for me. Only time, I care is when if some one wants to come out with me. Then I do have to think about that person's skills and equipment relative to the venue. I know I would have to assume some responsibility however much that may be. It's like being on a white water river. I see someone swimming, I go to help pull them to shore, push their boat and/or gather their equipment. This applies to those who may be "over their heads" or using the wrong equipment. Sometimes I may make a suggestions afterwards. Most times I don't because the person clearly doesn't want to hear, aren't open to learning and thinks he knows it all already. Okay. Cool. He isn't one of my paddling partners. So, off he goes. Good luck to him. :)
sing
PS. Jim, I was seriously laughing. You tell Barge not to paint with a broad brush and you end by doing exactly the same thing. I am still sitting here wondering what "tradition" were you referring to. You must be thinking of DLongborg's buddies, the native Hawaiians who paddle through some of the world's biggest surf breaks and swells in open boats. Now, that's "death defying" though I am sure some of those paddlers would disagree. :)
check out sisson kayaks iceman
That should make you drool a bit. Made me drool as much as ocean paddle sports did.
My bottom lines are:
anything works in a pond. When things get nasty I want a boat I can roll. Or reenter and roll with a paddle float. (SOT or sink) A solo boat over 27 inches wide is limited in it's rough water handling ability. The Tsunami rangers can do whatever they want. Folks looking at them or at you are looking at many hundreds of hours of concentrated work on skills, mostly by paddling hard on the ocean. I doubt many 27 inch wide sot paddlers can re-enter in serious steep low period chop.
people who think you can just get in and go are taking the risk that a major storm or wind might come up. I have one idiot friend who went and paddled in a notorious current without even checking the forecast. I told him if I heard of his doing such a stupid thing again I'd take my battery powered drill an put 100 holes in each of his two boats on night.
In a society so hung up on egalitarianism and anti-intellectualism few respect the value of hard earned skills and learning, so sometimes people pay the price for taking risks that no skilled and learned person would. Whether in a SOT or SINK venturing out in cold water that can get rough without skills is playing roulette.
for those of you who think that 200 hours of general paddling puts you in some sort ot superior place to many of those who have written on this thread: You must be joking. Many of us above the mason dixon line who post here have drysuits and paddle year round. Many of us put in 200 hours in our boats in 4 months and we do so working on our skills while we paddle along, not just sitting in a boat thinking we are paddlers.
LOL!
“practicing the backhanded breadstick eating squirrel rescue technique … and the underhanded triple axle floatbag toss rescue … and the bend-em over backwards and spank-em rescue … etc etc etc”
I want to do the spank-em thing!
no broad brush
The “death defying” remark was meant as toungue in cheek.
Look, I am just saying that some SINK paddlers are very closed minded. If you don’t paddle WHAT they paddle and HOW they paddle, then, accordng to them you ain’t paddling right. That is BS. I don’t paddle SOT’s anymore, but I believe they are the best when safety is an issue for most levels of experience.
Yes, on purpose - for balance
Thought that was obvious - along with the reason why I went that way.
Of the 5 kayaks I own now: 2 SINKs/3 SOTs. Of the three owned before these 2 were SOTs and one “other” (an IK). That makes 5 of 8 so far SOTs.
So what is my bais, really?
Same sort of thing when I chime in one the recurrent Rudder/Skeg threads. Of the 5 kayaks I have: 3 rudders/2 skegs.
I usually “argue” the side least understood, most attacked, or to counter garbage assumptions that are posted. At the same time I will agree with whatever makes sense on both sides. That may be confusing to some - but I don’t have a position either way.
I really don’t care what people paddle. Their choice - and I want to keep it that way. I just don’t like ignorance posted where I might be taken at face value - or worse, bogus safety related things that can get people killed. When paddlers die - bad laws that restrict out paddling choices are not far behind.
Besides being “good” and “right”, it’s simply in our interest to keep others safe too. Can’t really do that, but can give them more to chew on before they venture out.
Tuiliq + SOF = Dry suit
That’s why their techniques focus a varety of ways to rescue without coming out of the Qajaq.
No disadvantages to their equipment if you are capable of their methods, and several advantages if you are.
At least it’s paddlng related! NM
Would be much more effective
if it had factual content, and was not just a rant.
5 minutes to close a spray skirt? What a crock! Doesn’t take 5 seconds. Right up there with that post on not being able to splash yourself to cool off ina SINK! Hillarious!
Would be fun to go point by point on the rest, but as SING pointed out, some folks won’t listen to anything.
Your tone discredits you more than I ever could anyway. Enjoy paddling your barge Barge, and thanks for barging in!
a slap in the face is a good thing?
I don’t mind mixing it up here, but never set out to do anything like that.
Jim, it looks looks like you’ve found an online brother/tag team partner (definitely on that side show level). Irrational, Inflammatory, and always Irrelevant. “I-I-I” for short, you can say it after every post from these guys.
Methinks some of the SOTer are (for no good reason at all) suffering from a bit of an inferiority complex. Seen it before, and with some of the rec boaters too (who also don’t need to justify what they paddle - or attack those who paddle anything else).
Why take offense that some choose to stretch farther and learn more? How is that an attack on those who are happy where they are? I don’t speak much Latin, but don’t go on language boards and deride those who do, or tell them Mandarin is better because I know a more of that.
Forgive the “Eskimo” crowd for wanting to share what they’ve learned and the joy it gives them, and for wrongly thinking you might be open to it - at least reading about it. Nobody said you have to do anything - or that what you do sucks (beyond the BS posts anyway).
OK, maybe don’t come back to FL! L
Okay. 
Let me say this, there are many "highly skilled" paddlers here, including folks who paddle SINKS as well as SOTs. You got Iceman, Seawave, Dlongborg, among others who do alot of open ocean in SOT type boats. Their skills include handling boats in winds and waves. They may even surf but I dont' get that as their overwhelming focus. I am sure they're doing things that I know I wouldn't want to do, nor feel qualified to do in my SINK. I am pretty sure if the situation got dicey, they have the skills that match their equipment and the venue. It ain't like anybody with an SOT can do what they are doing. There are people, like Flatpick, Tsunamichuck, Kwikle and others who have expedition type paddling under their hulls. This is not something one just goes out to do. There are skills and knowledge involved that I know I don't have but would never say are unimportant. There are upper whitewater class paddlers here like Joemess, Dr. Disco, GD2, Kanaka, Wheeler and others. Then you have "death defying" surfers on SOTs like Seadart, BeachAVR, 'Cuda. Then you having racing types like Envybull, Sanjay, JackL, etc. Greenland types like BrianN, Airwave (and quasi me), etc.
The fact is that there are many facets to paddling, all with different equipment, somewhat specialized skills, different venues etc. What is common among these folks is that there is an emphasis on developing skills to match their equipment with the venues they want to go out in. It's okay for folks to not want to focus as much or to it more casually. But they shouldn't think equipment alone is going to make them safer over other considerations. It won't. The original poster asked about an SOT in Feb, in the Great lakes... I don't think it matters what he uses utlimately uses. But the fact that he even asked the question suggests strongly he doesn't have the experience not skills to be in that environment in the first place. At least not yet.
sing
The Right Tool For The Job At Hand, Or
Use the right tool for the job at hand.
Or sometimes a monkey wrench will do as well as a box end, so it is just a matter of personal preference…
SOTs, Rec Boats, and SINKs each have their own strenghts and weaknesses.
We come from all over the country, and we go boating in different kinds of conditions.
There just ain’t no “Right” answer here…
“Unassigned”… maybe about toilets…
I’d say 200 to 250 hours … as a conser
200 to 250 hours? In two years?
pffffffffftttttt. Get lost PLEBE.
Glad I am not the only one to catch that
Thanks, Sing, but
I make no claim at all to being a highly skilled paddler or being up with some of the other folks you named. I’m a decent intermediate for what and where I paddle, no more, and the more I learn the more I aware I become of how much more there is to know. It’s just that “don’t diss the Scupper” has somehow become one of my personal hobbyhorses and I have a hard time stopping. I’ll try to be better, really I will (I did manage to stay away from the rudder/skeg thread)!
Relax RustyDuck. I Already Told You…
You are cute, but you’re not THAT cute! 
I can pull that in a month during the
Summer if I am not careful…
Hell especially this past summer…