So i finally got my new tempest 170pro…


in the boat was the usual packet of minicell foam shims for the hip pads…but there was also a 4-pack of 1/2 tear drop shape mini cell foams…about 1/2"thick and about 5" long…What are they for???

too squishy to put in as extra thigh hook padding…random chunks in the boat???extras???

any thoughts ideas???

boat is off for a keel strip probably next week…cannot wait to paddle it!!!1


on the new boat.

not sure what the extra pads are??? 1/2 tear drop shape?

oilwell. save 'em for…yeah, whatever! :slight_smile:

good luck on the maiden voyage!!!


Watch Out
Recently my wife and I bought a 165 Pro and a 170 Pro. The old style hatch covers had circumferential grooves, and bungee cords were furnished to fit these grooves (for wild water). On our boats, the grooves had been cut off (but the bungee cords were furnished??). On my wife’s boat the groove on the stern hatch cover had been cut off sloppily, and the cover leaked a lot. Fortunately, Marty at The Jersey Paddler was able to provide two sets of the old style hatch covers, and the leakage stopped.

Why were the grooves removed???

Anyway, forewarned is forearmed.


Still waiting…
…for the Tempest 170 I ordered on October 8, 2005. The rep from W.S. (Steve’s partner) promised me I’d have the boat in 4 to 6 weeks. The inability of Confluence to produce what they promised anywhere remotely close to when they promised is taking all the fun away from getting a new boat. It had better be a perfect representative of the species when it gets here, cause I’m just mad enough to refuse it if it isn’t.

Check it carefully
Check the hatches very carefully for waterproofness. Also, test the bulkheads if it is a poly boat especially.

I’ve seen alot of faulty bulkheads in some of their other models so far this year…bulkheads not sealed, loose, popping out etc. Mostly on their rec boats though…I’d check it carefully though to be sure.

Good luck.

Cheers…Joe O’

While I understand
your frustration, I know of no one in the industry who would out and out lie to you. Big companies in the midst of merging = confusion, no matter how hard everyone tries to avoid it. I’m sure you’ll get your boat and will enjoy it. BTW, I remember long waits in the olden days from a few highly regarded companies…

Half-teardrop foam
Sounds like the stuff sold separately as hip pads at WW shops. They have a flat side and a curve on the other that I guess could be called a half-teardrop. The ones I’ve seen were made of the same gray minicell foam as the rest of the shims (the wedge-shaped ones).

My T165 came with a whole bunch of flat and wedge-shaped shims of different thicknesses in the Extras baggie, but I think there was already one half-teardrop piece installed on each side. Can’t remember now what’s in there.

ain’t it the truth! no one is lying, there is just this ‘hopefulness’ that things may get done on time. I have to travel back E soon to ‘help out’ and get some things done that just don’t seem to be coming along.

Now waiting for a New Wave squirt boat… in the early '90’s… now that was waitinggggggg.


Yeah, I’m frustrated.

– Last Updated: Jan-22-06 6:26 PM EST –

If I make a commitment to a person and I can't make the deadline, you'd better believe I'd be in contact with that person explaining why I can't make it, and when I can deliver. They didn't contact me whatsoever until, weeks after the deadline, I started inquiring. Their reply is, "Uh, it might ship next week". The same response month after month. From where I (the customer) sit, Confluence is lame. A week or two past a deadline is one thing, but months? With no explanation?

Then to top it off, the Confluence area rep, the same one who told me 4 to 6 weeks originally, tells me he can get me a relatively local 2005 model shipped from another dealer within a week. Since the 2006 is still a dream, I agree to that. It's been two weeks, and apparently the 2005 boat has disappeared, and not a word from the rep (as usual). The customer is back in the dark, with no clue of when his son will get his October birthday present. As far as I know, I'm back to waiting for the original boat.

My apologies for hijacking the thread. I feel better now that I've vented. :)

all of this from a question to a forum member…

for information purposes:

I ordered my boat July 21st and paid for it directly to confluence on august 2nd…

so in my mind anyone out there who is complaining about a 3 week lag time has no rights to…

why is there such a lag?

lets see has anything recently happened to that company that might have any recourse???lets see…hmmm…congoloming together 2 huge companies…moving to another state…etc…

any DEALER that offered any sort of a guarantee of a time is a bit loopy…know better!!!

oh yes…i am a dealer too so i can say that…

they removed the bottom lip of the rear hatch covers because they were not sealing well against the deck…most of them seal much better now…i have seen 1 or 2 that do not (all RM poly boats)…i will admit that i have been tempted to get a couple of the valley or kajaksport rubber hatches and switch them out…on a general note: the front hacthes very rarely leak from my experiences…

flatpick: thanks for the info…if i find out i will let you know…

in all my years of paddle sports i have never seen foams like these…hmmmmmm.


you said:

“why is there such a lag?

lets see has anything recently happened to that company that might have any recourse???lets see…hmmm…congoloming together 2 huge companies…moving to another state…etc…

any DEALER that offered any sort of a guarantee of a time is a bit loopy…know better!!!

oh yes…i am a dealer too so i can say that…”

As my earlier post stated, it was the CONFLUENCE rep that gave the 4 to 6 week delivery time, even after my asking him about the merger causing delays.

Sh!t happens
In early April I ordered a fiberglass topper for a new truck (truck came out in late '04 in SoCal, spring '05 in Denver area). The shop told me that A.R.E., Leer, etc. all were working hard on new molds for a slew of new trucks and it’d be a while, probably early to mid June, before I got my topper. I automatically figured late June or early July. June came and went, as did July. The shop could not get a hard date from A.R.E. simply because they really didn’t know themselves.

I got it in August, a 4-month wait from placement of order to receipt. And I was one of the first “in line” to get one.

Sometime in July the shop had called me, eagerly stating that the topper was on its way. Not long after, they called to let me know that A.R.E. was not satisfied with the fit of the topper so they were tweaking the molds.

I’m glad they got the fit right instead of just pushing it out the door.

I assume that no new molds are necessary to make your Tempest, but maybe that’s not the case. I’ve been told they do wear out after a while, and maybe they need to make some new ones. No doubt they are playing catch-up after a major move.

It stinks to have such a long wait, but then again it’s winter.

Steve, wildernessSystems isn’t related.
to Perception, are they? If not, check out the back cover of C&K this current issue…boat----pfd…

…but then again, it’s winter.
I’ll give an amen to that!

my sense is that someone in WS has made a policy decision to not deviate from the standard “four to six week” estimate on the idea that they’d lose a sale compared to the other manufacturers. Unfortunately it leaves the dealer trying to appease the customer and leaving neither very happy.

The ‘move’ and merger and winter have all been hard on us @ Confluence. The composite shop in particular, was a gnarly move. There wasn’t room at the Watermark facility for the likes of a SOTA composite shop so we had to re-invent the wheel. The present shop is located off-site ( a GOOD thing) as the glass work is EZ enough to do away from the Easley plant. But… the standard 4-8 weeks answer should NOT IMO have been used. we know this is a pipe dream.

personally i am sorry for anyone having to ‘wait’ for a newly ordered, paid for, hoped for NEW vessel. what a drag. but like Pat (Pikabike) said ‘shit happens’.

hopefully when your boat does show up, it will take the edge off’n how long and painful the wait is!


Ditto that
The front bulkhead on my poly T170 looked like it had twisted out of place before the glue even dried. It never should have left the factory that way. I had to pull it out and make a new one from scratch (the replacement my dealer promised never showed up).

off topic comparisons
Have there been any threads comparing the Tempest 170 to other boats ? In particular the NDK Explorer and the Valley Avocet (glass)

I have read all of the reviews but have not paddled a Tempest yet. In particular I am wondering if the Tempest rolls up as easy as the others I mentioned for a top heavy paddler. I assume primary is more solid on the Tempest but what about secondary and ease of maintaining a good touring pace?

Oh my…
Many years ago I remember old Mike Neckar responding to a new paddler who was asking a similar question…“Oh f***, once you know how to roll you can roll the F***ing Queen Mary”. I agree with that.

No offense, but they all roll so damn easy I’d be worried about the person who started to differentiate on that! They are all fast enough to tour with, but none are fast in flat conditions. All three will be excellent in rougher conditions. Again, they are all so darn close it’s almost silly IMO to worry about speed differences. Paddle all of em as much as ya can. Don’t be in a rush.

Have fun, listen to your gut, make yer own calls, and get good. The best boats are the ones with the best paddlers in them.

although I agree with salty…
I’ll answer the question asked. I’ve paddled the Tempest 170, Explorer, and Avocet a fair amount. In paddle rollability, I’d give the nod to the Explorer, then the Tempest, and then the Avocet. For hand rolling, it’s the Explorer, then the Avocet, then the Tempest. All three boats roll well so this definitely should not be the deciding criteria for these boats.

Primary stability is strong on all three boats although the Avocet would have the least of the three. For touring speeds, I would say that the Tempest is the quickest, followed by the Avocet, and then the Explorer although I felt the Avocet accelerated better (which might have more to do with cockpit fit versus the hull design). None of these boats are going to win races but they are definitely fast enough to keep up with any touring group. All three designs are confidence inspiring in bigger water and are comfortable in surf/chop. I would try them all out to find the one that fits you the best but be assured that all are great choices.