Kudzu - where
Where can you rent one?
This years mini skirt…yeah!!
I believe you mean…
– Last Updated: Sep-01-10 9:32 AM EST –
that perhaps the Tiderace Excite S is markedly different from the regular Excite. No one here has mentioned the Tiderace Explore boats as playful candidates.
This must be so based on our (and someone else's here) experience with the regular one. The relative size of the Excite S to the regular may also be indicated by the fact that they could not find a way to squeeze a day hatch in there - likely a significant diff in volume between the two. The other boats have them, and to my knowledge the Excite S is the only no-day hatch touring kayak in which Aled Williams has ever had a hand. I do know that he, like many of the Brits, is solidly concerned about deck strength for rescues in heavy seas. And there is the issue of having a decently long bulkheaded compartment for stowing things like tent poles - this can get more difficult with a very short length.
As to the sense that the Excite is not dissimilar to the Romany/Explorer series, this is not too surprising. The same guy - Aled Williams - is the primary on both the NDK Romany/Explorer and Tiderace. He has stated that he likes having some head room for conditions, and there is no indication that this aspect of his design ethic has changed. What has changed between these two series is exactly how he executes that goal. But if you look at the hull cross-sections around the cockpit, there are plenty of similarities among the differences.
One distinct diff between these two series is the height of the foredeck, but that is probably informed by current thinking about how to get a good forward stroke. The racing folks have had an impact here.
Re the widths of the Romany/Explorer - a quick check of NDSK's matches what we have in the basement. Both boats are the same width - 54 cm. Obviously the length to width ratio of the two is different, and that along with the rearward shift in the cockpit in the Romany makes the Romany much more playful. The Romany LV is the same hull as the regular Romany - all that is diff is the cockpit fit - so those should perform the same.
Good or Fad?
Salty, mind clarifying whether you are saying you believe this new boat is a really good thing or you believe it is more a fad boat? Seems to me there are more boats coming out which seem to be optimized/designed for a narrow range of paddling. I suppose if they fit your paddling interests it is a good thing, but some folks may think they are the hot boat for general paddling when that is not their forte. Still, nice to see some specialized choices similar to WW.
In an interview once Nigel Dennis was asked if he would design new boats since the Romany, etc. designs were outdated compared to exciting newer boats coming out. His response was “No”. He went on to say he understood different designs would be better for certain types of paddling as in tide races/rough water play, but he wanted his boats to be OK doing most things as opposed to really good at some things.
Horses for courses.
Impex Hatteras
Has anyone paddled on of theses? How do they rate w/ the Romany and the Avocet. This boat seems to intended to compete with those. It is a boat I am considering when I add to my current fleet.
Aled Williams on his design ethos
From Aled: “…it’s all about having a reserve, a performance margin and a comfort zone.”
Feathercraft Khatsalano or Wisper
Rocker and stability are adjustable on the Khatsalano. Plus its cool to bring a fully functional sea kayak along on overseas trips.
Im sure it’s just fine
but groundbreaking…not. Look back up this thread at Spikes Viper. Actually I’ll take some credit there as i had a lot of say over the last decade toward that boat and was part of the Vipers evolution. Far from perfect, and I aint here to sell it cuz it aint for sale. It is however, a response to the same ol boring sea kayak gig. Yep, that’s my opinion and i own it. I see nothing from any of the mainstream guys that remotely interests me, and I’m not alone. Is the Viper the boat for most here? Of course not, but it represents new thinking and will turn circles and outsurf the commodity stuff by far.
I know there’s a whole new realm out there with touring…but we keep seeing the same old stuff re-invented. Only with more hatches… My opinion…
These are all fine boats that will get ya through hell and gone. Time to paddle.
I see-Just a variation on a theme-NM
so
There are a few options:
- Your friend and you have access to manufacturers
- Run your own molds, give molds to someone else
- Open source the lines, design
Maybe
Or just design and build your own stuff for yourself. How many P-netters would buy a Viper?? Given they represent a realistic sub-set of the touring market / demographic I think you’d fail miserably cuz it doesn’t represent what they are used to seeing. Now, take a young WW jock(ette) and ask them which boat they would be drawn to for ocean play and I’d guess a different outcome.
I seriously wonder how many re-makes of the same ole stuff can be supported by the current market? I’, also sitting thinking none of the newer trad kayaks would outdo a Mariner Coaster for ocean play either (MO). It’s more about marketing and getting a buzz up on the latest boat I think. Seriously, how many displacement 16 ish footers can you make within certain dimmensions??
Saw a little Pygmy recently that caught ny eye, and I also think the SUP market may influence future touring craft as well.
Just thinking out loud here folk…
take a young WW jock(ette) and ask them
"…take a young WW jock(ette) and ask them which boat they would be drawn to for ocean play and I’d guess a different outcome." - salty
The 2 ww paddlers I most recently met (who do not know each other) who decided to pick up sea kayaks both got Pintails 
I’m genuinely wondering… if Valley can successfully produce surf kayaks and Rapiers in addition to their main sea kayak range, might there be an audience for something along the lines of a Viper?
Might Pyranha be ideally placed to use their deep ww experience to produce a P&H (or Pyranha) boat more along the lines of a Viper than the Delphin?
Maybe…Graham would "get it "
+1
Been working on our own designs for awhile…not there yet. It sure is fun pushing envelopes though!
Delphin availability
delphins are just now coming available in the US - a few scattered around the coasts currently (good timing on the east coast). Next week they will be avaialable thru most PH dealers…and readily available to try.
the airies (composite version) is coming along nicely too - and plans to be introduced properly in Germany early october at the Kanu Messe show.
PH Asheville, NC
Some more info
These 2 articles from Canoe & Kayak UK provide more response to a number of boats under discussion:
http://www.canoekayak.co.uk/categories/articleitem.asp?item=638
http://www.canoekayak.co.uk/categories/articleitem.asp?cate=8&topic=24&item=34
Great articles.
Thanks for posting
Similar Thoughts…
– Last Updated: Sep-03-10 10:16 AM EST –
"Those looking for more of a performance plastic sea kayak, or a multi-day/expedition style boat however may find it a little too pedestrian for their tastes."
When I rented the smaller Zephyr and paddled it at the coast I found it didn't do anything significantly better than anything my T165 could do. Yeah, it was different, but not different enough.