So very true. There is currently one on p.net:
(NY) Selling my two year old Valley Nordkapp LV (Length 17'6", Width 21",Weight 50lb), asking $2,400 (new price ~ $3,600). Boat is in good conditions with only surface scratches on bottom and some wear on a couple of the bungee cords. Stored at pier 40, Manhattan's West Side/SoHo. Tech info: http://www.valleyseakayaks.com/content/boats/composite/nordkapp-lv -- Submitted by: runarView
As noted many have purchased Nordlows only to be overwhelmed by the boat in conditions. It is a very fun sexy boat. However, as flatpick has said "You have to be on top of your game to paddle that boat." Few I know of who have kept their Nordlows have them as their only boat. Like a Pintail, it might best be thought of as a niche boat.
nordlow vs N rm i paddled the nordkapp rm quite a bit in very rough conditions this summer…i guess its quite similar…nordlow,s got more rocker?pintail even more…yiia…
a niche boat It’s not a slam - in my book - to call a boat a niche boat.
TGod we have kayak designers and kayak makers who are willing to make and market a few boats that are not “mini vans” or, for that matter, “SUVs” .
The exploding popularity of kayaking means the market is clogged w. stolid, stable boats that just about anyone can paddle. That’s where the sales are, and the profits. But there is a fractional number of paddlers that wants something else, and thus niche boats are developed.
Unless some of the lucky few are getting paid to paddle, it’s all recreation anyways…
Sean’s personal boat The point is that the Avocet was his personal selection for such stuff. I was lucky enough to paddle with him several times when he paddled his (personal) Avocet which he made no secret of loving. Of course, now he reps for P&H. But for many years, without respect to sponsorship, his selection was the Avocet for playful conditions. It can’t be too much of a dog.
My point about TITS2 is that he was able to, IMO, outplay other very skilled paddlers using his Avocet. I’m not saying that the Avocet is better because of this. But to say that the Avocet is not a good boat for play just isn’t accurate IMO.
I own and love a Nordkapp LV. Fortunately a number of us can own multiple boats. Though I love my Nordlow, I could not have it as my only boat. It is not a "do everything" boat. Even Douglas Wilcox sometimes chooses to use his Quest rather than his Nordlow.
Pintail / Norlow / Avocet comparison: I own an old style Pintail and really like it, but I demo’d a Norlow and liked it too. Faster, turns well, especially for such a long boat, very responsive. Seemed like an easy boat to love, but I only paddled it in calm conditions.
The Pintail is slower, less secure feeling, but feels oh so alive. It’s loose in the water, and responds to every input. You have to constantly make course corrections, but that’s okay because those corrections are easily made. It is most fun going upwind, skeg up, playing in the wind waves. Since it weathercocks in a whisper of wind, it’s very skeg dependent. The good news is this skeg is the best I have used. It must be carefully trimmed for quartering winds, but it works. A boat to love for the feeling it gives, not for covering lots of miles on flat water.
The Avocet feels more civilized. More stabile, better tracking, better overall behavior - but kinda vanilla in comparison.
Yes yes and yes. That can all be done even in choppy water. The boat is relatively sensitive to your movement and doesn’t really have any secondary stability but like anything else, you will get used to it. Here are a couple of pics I took “no hands” in some pretty rough water and 30mph winds from my LV last week. The boat is awesome in these conditions. http://nordkapplv.shutterfly.com/
By niche, I mean that it isn't a "do everything" boat like an Explorer, Aquanaut, or Cetus. It is not a boat for every paddler. One can put a novice in a Romany, Tempest 165, Chatham 16, etc.. and they will smile with the ease and confidence with which they can control the boat. In a Nordlow they will more likely be nervous with the lack of obvious primary or secondary. It is not a confidence inspiring boat.
In challenging conditions it requires equanimity and good bracing skills.
In return it accelerates amazingly. It moves through chop with confidence. It runs downwind and in following seas like a banshee. It responds to maneuvering strokes and bracing very quickly.
It is a fun sexy boat. But, like a high performance sports car, it is not ideal for all purposes or users.
very good analogy Capeche! I agree. I only mentioned it as sometimes a boat is a bit disparaged by calling it a “niche boat”.
I know that’s not your meaning.
BTW I laughed when someone referred to my Suka that way (not the flattering way). That person could not paddle a Suka w. confidence so therefore it was a niche boat LOL.
Interesting comment about do-all boats. I only know (in person) one person who paddles a Nordlow. He loves the boat, but I believe is in the hunt for another boat for teaching.
thanks scary Thanks for the comparison. The only one I really haven’t spent much time in you answered my question about.
I could not have said it better about the avocet. I didn’t mean it as a slam to say it wasn’t playful, it just was a different boat to me than a nordlow or an AA.
"...more civilized. More stabile, better tracking, better overall behavior - but kinda vanilla in comparison" -scary
It seems that the majority of recent model boats are aiming at a broader array of paddlers than many earlier models (such as Anas, Pintail, Sirius, Vyneck, original Nordkapp, etc...). Hence they are more reassuring. It seems that Nigel Dennis (and Aled Williams) may have pioneered producing boats that were both extremely capable and responsive while not being too demanding. Nigel Dennis once noted that he didn't see the point in designing boats that only 10% of paddlers could paddle without falling out of - hence the Romany and Explorer at a time when Pintails and Nordkapps were the norm.
It is something I genuinely appreciate about Valley - that they (Peter Orton) will design a fairly demanding boat such as the Nordlow, while continuing to develop reassuring highly capable boats (the new model of which he wrote here).
Agree The Avocet might not be a good fit for your body or skills. It is not the right boat for everybody. I just disagree with the part where you said
“I think the avocet is grossly overrated as a playful sea kayak, especially compared to some of the others mentioned here.”
I think it is a great boat, and for some people like Sean and my wife, the right boat for play. It is not grossly overrated IMO. It deserves the applause.
"another boat for teaching" Yup, the Nordlow is not an ideal schooling boat. I’ve known or read of many coaches who have Nordlows for their own enjoyment using other boats for coaching and guiding. Among the most common models used by folk when responsible for others include the Quest, Explorer, Aquanaut, and Cetus. And, of course the Romany was originally designed as a schooling boat and is still often favored as such
great point, I agree I realize they have their own particular allegiance to a ‘style’, but within that style the variety is pretty rich. Add to that, that Valley are not a huge corporation like Johnson Outdoors or Perception/Dagger.
I hope no one gets me wrong on the avocet: if I could have only one boat, it would be at the top of my list with three or four others.
