$250 for 2 hours of basic instruction is very expensive. Even the private lesson my husband and I took (a kayak surfing lesson) cost $150 per person for 3 hours including use of composite kayaks and transportation.
Our first lesson cost $125 per person for an all-day class, including use of Eddyline kayaks and full PNW immersion gear (Gore-tex drysuits, neoprene booties, beanie caps). Another lesson I took later on cost $130 for an all-day class, including kayaking gear and transportation.
I also paid a measly $89 for an intro WW class that included an evening pool session plus full day of outdoors instruction in both a pond and in a WW river park. That included all gear also--transportation consisted of us carrying the kayaks outdoors. If you can take the lesson at a place that operates right on the water, costs may be lower. Especially now that gas costs so much.
Don't judge based on cost, either. Less expensive is not necessarily inferior instruction. Might be better.***
AND...you can learn a lot from informal instruction (friends), and from videos and books. I still watch the same videos now and then, still review chapters in books, still keep watching for ways to improve.
Don't buy a less intimidating kayak just because you don't want to pay for lessons. There are other ways to learn the skills.
IF, on the other hand, you really just want to take photos from the kayak and take it easy, there's nothing wrong with buying a suitable kayak for that. Maybe you should be looking for other people to paddle with if that's the case. Not everybody has to go long or hard; it's supposed to be your leisure time!
*** Total lesson time and costs: 30 hours for $494
I also had a free 2-hr lesson from the person who sold me my first sea kayak, and free rolling instruction.
I know two people who took Gronseth's one-week boot camp. One person made good use of his tuition. The other person focused almost exclusively on rolling, and that's basically what he took away for his $1000. Nothing else.
What I mean is this:
I got the 170 and absolutely loved it. there are aspects to the boat that I still don't know. BUT, since I have been going lower volume boats like my SOF and the Outer Island, the 170 now appears big for me and too stable. I was a pro photographer for quite a long time and I have taken digital equipment out in the tempest with no issues. In flat water, I could stand on my head and take pictures in the 170.
So I am loking seriously at the 165. And I am at 195 and 6 ft. I think you could go either way, depending on the weight you are going to carry 98% of the time. Please read that again..most paddles you won't have much more than 10 or 15 lbs with you unless you plan to only expedition paddle.
What I am trying to say also is that tippiness goes away with butt time. More butt time = less tippy. the boat knows which way is up. It is just waiting for you to get your head out of your you know what and realize it and let it do what it is designed to do. (not you of course but in a figurative sense) The more you try to control what the boat is doing when just sitting upright, the more your own anxiety and stiffness transfers to the boat. The more you relax your butt and hips the more stable it becomes.
I know simple to say but it really is true.
Paul
buy either one..but buy a tempest..The one thing that I agree on the Wildy site is the description that reads something like "the most well mannered sea kayak...
remember… it DID take you some serious BUTT time to get to the point you are today. probably a helluvalot more than most people put in in a couple seasons or more.
you can now roll a bunch of different ways, brace, all the strokes, etc. many folks take years getting to this point.
and you won’t have a whole lot of comfort-room in a 165. I know. i’m 5’10 and 175 and while not ‘uncomfortable’ it is snug. On longer trips I dig my 170! I’ve even been known to bring out the B I G guns (180) on long extended trips!
actually Here, comparing MSRPs, Tempests are ~$2000-2100, Capellas $1800 and Siroccos $1750,so up to 350$ difference. Prices in canadian dollars. I think in US plastic boats are cheaper for some reason than canada.
By the way i am just back from a 2 hour paddle in a rented sirocco and i thought it’s a slug in flat water, and skeg seemed to create very noticable drag to slow it down even more. my Elaho is noticably faster, so was my Cape horn. But it was very manouverable and felt like it should do good with a decent paddler in rough water. gear capacity about same as elaho. Plastic seemed tougher than the Wildy stuff. Kinda made me go “hm its neat but wouldnt want it as my only boat”.
yep July 1 2005 was the day I bought the Tempest 170. I rememember that Greyhawk and I did a 6 mile run to the Bogies. (Leave from Florida Bay Outfitters in Key Largo straight across Blackwater Sound to the mangrove cuts called the Bogies) and halfway there I developed a horrible pain in my lower back only on the left side. Couldn’t walk straight for a few days after that. Trying to have too snug a fit with the back band firmly against my back, the thigh pads very snug, and the footpegs up one or two nothches more forward than they should have been.
Took a while to realize that it is all thighs, knees and feet and while I am snug in the SOF and OI, my butt and hips are not restricted in any way. the beauty of the adjustable thigh braces and the phase three seating is that you can have as snug a fit as you want in the Tempest, or as loose a fit as you want and you can do it without dragging out blocks of minicell.
first post BTW, the first post…as to weight…plastic develops muscles…bigger boat = more muscles…all helpful when you’re paddling. How’s that for a positive spin on things?
Seriously, I was talked out of the tsunami and it was one of the very few smart things I have ever done, because I already knew where I wanted to go with the sport. Saved me some money also as I skipped the generation of boat buying as described above. If you have any visions of yourself in waves and wind, doing any long camping, or developing more than just basic skills kayaking, you owe it to yourself to get a more responsive and performance oriented boat. Not saying you couldn’t do it in a tsunami…but just not as well. Any initial uncomfortableness will go away and you will be left with a satisfied smirk on your face for a very long time.
so what color you going for? Mine is blue. purty boat scratches and all.
The Capella has less primary stability than the 170 so I think that it might be a little much for TacomaPaddler as a boat to learn with. He should reach but we don’t want him to get discouraged. The beauty of the Tempest is that it is forgiving enough for most beginners and capable enough for the most advanced.—Rich
In his other post about trying to find a used boat, he mentioned trying out lots of boats.
At this point, it’s not clear what purpose mentioning other boats serves. Anyway, the original post is talking about choosing between two specific boats.
the fun stuff… Hi B. I envision all of that for myself. The sound was rainy yesterday, and I had such a desire to be out in the rain and chop, the real ocean conditions, as opposed to the days when the sound is just glass. I dig the elemental thing; then again, I am sure I will be out in the glass, too. I figure the glass is the best time to see seals and eagles.
they say i shoudl go for a bright yellow or orange boat for safety, but i really would like a blue boat to blend, or gray. I figure I could carry an airhorn just in case i need to let a yacht know I’m around. Wouldn’t do anygood with one of those huge container ships we get around here, but then again a bright boat wouldn’t help much either!
I strongly feel that you'd be better off gaining experience and learning boat control in any appropriate sea kayak than spending a lot of effort trying to find the "perfect" boat.
The Tempest is an excellent sea kayak (among many excellent boats) and it's not too big (my pet peeve).
I really don't see the point of "try my favorite boat" posts especially concidering they mention nothing specific that indicates they'd be better for you than the Tempest.
There is nothing wrong with the Tsunami but, given your stated interests, the Tempest is a better long term match.
Dude get off my case i was just suggesting something he may have overlooked, that IS right up there in the same category as tempest. and no capella isn't really my favotite boat since i havent tried it. but it seems pretty well built and would save some coin at the same time. so would be worth trying if he hasn't yet. Now we know he tried it. so good on tacomapaddler for trying a lot of what's out there. always better to shop around good the first time then grabbing something and selling it the next month .
"always better to shop around good the first time then grabbing something and selling it the next month"
Absolutely! But people can spend an awful amount of time trying to find the "perfect" boat when actually using a decent boat would be much more useful. People reflexively say "demo, demo, demo" but don't apparently realize that that can go too far.
If you had seen his other recent thread, it would have been apparent that he had tried a lot of boats.
While it didn't actually go that way, I was afraid that this thread was going to be a long list of people saying "try my favorite" boat. That would not have been very helpful to TacomaPaddler (in my opionion).