The CO2 link to ocean acidification and 19 'mass extinctions' with CO2 levels we're now heading toward

Bud, I admire your imagination.

“Likewise we will have little control of the interglacial cycle”

I think one of the links I posted might have stated that the climate was still considered to be cooling until 1950 on the way toward the next ice age, but since has been warming.
2023 shatters climate records, with major impacts (wmo.int)

A graphic from the above link
Screenshot 2024-01-05 112140

Here is a NOAA graph from 1880 to 2022 of temperature anomalies. Notice how they were on the negative (cold) side but have been steadily increasing on the positive (warm) side.
2023 was the warmest on record and may have been so for the 125,000 years.
Screenshot 2024-01-05 110355

I’m adding 2 links one is,
Explainer: How the rise and fall of CO2 levels influenced the ice ages (carbonbrief.org)

The second is,
Human emissions will delay next ice age by 50,000 years, study says - Carbon Brief

To summarize our total amount of CO2 currently in the atmosphere has doubled the existing interglacial period. That sounds good but major damage from global warming is much more eminent than the next ice age.

So, it looks like we can exert an influence on our current interglacial period and do it in just a couple centuries.

There’s little doubt what media ecosphere influences your concerns over eating bugs and (((globalists))), not to mention your invocation of Atlas Shrugged in another thread, but at least this one (the absence of personal transportation) is interesting since it’s been proposed by at least one science popularizer/scientist that I know of. The rest (simulated experiences) have been covered in utopian/dystopian literature for almost 100 years, so, again, not new but interesting fodder for thought.

The American emphasis on freedom of movement will shudder at the possibility of loss of personal transportation (as well it should, I’ll add); that emphasis on free travel is double-edged, though, since it also inhibits our use of public transportation, which would benefit us both within and between urban areas and for cross-continental travel. Other cultures don’t share our worries over personal freedom for a variety of reasons: environment and tradition being two of them. To bring this back to the forum purpose and a personal level, as a wilderness paddler, I’m not too concerned about the loss of personal transportation during my lifetime (or even my children’s or grandchildren’s lifetimes). It’s a fun dystopian idea to throw around, but not a pressing concern. Nobody’s coming for my truck, just like nobody’s coming for my guns. At least not at the moment. Those are manufactured and monetized worries for political purposes.

As far as simulated experiences go, on one hand, we opened that Pandora’s box a while ago, at least digitally. That doesn’t make it less of a concern, but it’s certainly not a new one. On the other hand, simulated experience is at the very heart of the act of narration itself, from the simulacrums of film to the moving panoramas of the 19th century to possible cave painting as records of shamanic journeys. The “danger” of simulated experiences, at least in my mind, is really just another way of discussing the “loss” of authentic experiences, but good luck trying to define what an authentic experience is. That’s a brier patch if there ever was one.

Here’s what I have difficulty understanding, though: Why aren’t folks who seem so concerned about the issues you seem to have advocating for greater wilderness protection and even expansion? Within this smaller debate, what’s the point in freedom of movement (for me, as a wilderness paddler) if I don’t have accessible and abundant wilderness to experience? Being personally free to move through an endless landscape of McDonald’s and big box stores doesn’t really seem like real freedom, taken in its larger sense.

As Edward Abbey suggested, wilderness can be seen as a refuge from the type of political/cultural oppression you seem worried about as well as offering a haven for personal freedom. So, I guess my question is why isn’t the loss of wilderness your primary concern, especially considering that there are real and pressing threats to its existence?

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Google Digital Dollar and learn more it is coming if we let it. No more barber shops with a drawer full of cash and the barber at the end of the day the barber saying did I cut 10 heads or 30 and stuffing some money in his pockets. With credit cards/debit cards it is between you and your bank at least. With Digital Dollars the same people that you pay your taxes to will be the same people knowing right to the penny what goes in and goes out and their cut will just come out. Step two as they know what you spend and earn they will also know what you spend it on and they can give you a personal ESG score. Step three will be Digital Dollars could be allotted based on what you buy and your ESG score. Buy red meat to often and it is determined beef production causes excess CO2 production your Digital Dollar just wont work to buy that pound of hamburger, but for the same price you can get four pounds of simulated hamburger made from meal worm protein.

This hasn’t happened yet but I’m a couple years older than you and I think based on what has already changed and the speed and direction of that change we could likely see it.

For the rest of the utopian society I described we are well on our way.

We have a generation primed for more advanced simulation from spending so many hours staring at a phone screen and swiping it they have new medical problems of the thumbs. To think you and I spent most of our life in a world where we had road maps and phone books and now there are as unknown as what is a rotary phone and how do you use one.

As a kid I had this crazy idea after seeing an IBM card reading main frame play tick tack toe that someday a computer would play chess. My math teacher quickly pointed out how imposable a task that would be and computers could never process that kind of thought. I also never thought that during a blizzard up north where I live that I could drive five miles and play Pebble Beach on a warm sunny day in a golf simulator. All tech isn’t that bad, but good and bad it is coming unless something comes along that crashes our way of life and sends us backwards. I love my GPS but it took me away from using my inelegance and turned the job over to AI. I have a little nephew that’s 5 and went to his house and this sweeper thing was driving around the house and I asked him what the heck is that? He said its Rumba. I asked him if it is a robot and he said well kind of but it doesn’t have too many special powers.

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I’m sorry but when I visit the WMO page you offered here and knowing it is the voice of the UN dealing with reporting weather and climate change it is hard for me to get past the almost science fiction writing style of their author. Their video is worse IMO starting with an over saturated red filtered picture of the sun ominous music playing and one stock image of destruction after the next. They should have split the images up of record flooding and record drought with a couple more graphs where the scales are over exaggerated showing a few mm of sea level compared with a 30 year time line to make a 45 degree slope of change looking like the end is near.

I know writing styles and video presentation are subjective, but some styles are clearly done to set a mood and then sprinkle in the facts for legitimacy.

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In reality and the full truth in disclosure, the US has outsource most industrial output to China, because its too costly here due to environmental regulations. We didnt fix the problem, we just buy it from China, because they use underpaid labor and don’t care about environmental regulations. So its cheaper to make it over there with under paid worker, then transport it by ship to us. The richest US industrialist have just moved their dirtiest operations to China. They even accepted more rigid green standard, while relaxing the standards for China to keep production costs down and profits up. To make sure, they even agreed to gift 2 billion in tax dollars to China as part of the deal. That slight of hands can only last for so long, so the US hucksters are taking money under the table to allow immigration to flourish, because democrat backed unions have priced the US worker out of the labor market. Now they need only to import enough indenture servants to recover the labor force that labor unions capped out of the market. The indentured servants are lured with a sign on fee - free health care paid by the taxpayers who lose the jobs but gets cheap stuff, while for example, California’s budget blows through 83 billion deficit, and nobody cares, because the feds willl step in and share the debt.

Coincidently, the colonial indentured servants had a 7 year period of servitude. The border runners will get amnesty, and a promise of US citizenship in 6 or more years. Its the same formula that didn’t work so they tried slavery. The hucksters, Blinking and Myjerkus, are negotiating amnesty deals as we argue (dividing people is the easiest way to flim flam them) with the Mexican communist Presidente. The cartel is making an upheard of $7,000 plus for per immigrant (you will.never believe how much Chinese are paying, but I promise that it’s more than somebody from China could pay unless subsidized. The travelers actually wear wrist bands telling the US border patrol they paid at home, and our border patrol just scoots them along and arranges transportstion, paid for by the unwitting taxpayer, so they get to the people ordering the indentured worker. The border stays open with the help of the loud mouths who shout at doubters by callling them racist bigots and haters. Meanwhile the cheap fentanyl keeps flowing, while 100s of thousands die in the US, and legislators openly lobby for the voters to back drug legalization, as they explained, it can boost revenues if we tax it. If the stoopid American workers are too drug addled to work, hire a hard working underpaid indentured servant, and everybody wins. They’re replaced by cheap labor. Its a sick viscious cycle, but nobody seems to connect the dots.

Show some more statistics to convince me, but tell me how long this circus will last and how much 10% of that operation looks like in shell corporations, hidden bank accounts, and when it’s spread between every member of the shark’s family. This would make an entertaining movie.

I don’t doubt the earth is warming. I could even prove it and trace the mechanism that perpetuates it, but I retired 16 years ago and I’m considered an ignorant rube who wants to keep my horse. I know in grest specificity what huckster look like and how they fleece sheep. Baaaahh. Baaaah.

Somebody in Alaska told me windmills don’t pay for themselves, but its cheaper than flying barrels of diesel fuel into the outback county. It’s relative. Not even perception, but a real fact, or so I was told. I do admit that I’m a skeptic.

We even shipped our operations breeding germ warfare to China, then covered it up, and turned the head of everyone in the world to ignore the truth, even getting the press to shut down anyone who caught on, and nobody asked why FOOCHIE is the highest paid civil servant in the country. Nobody questions the noble scientist. Makes me feel cozy it does, except I’ll never get another covid shot. They made too many and isn’t it fortunate the government pays the bill so everyone can afford to get a booster shot, free, every two weeks. Oh boy, I just made that up! Don’t go there.

Come on Bud, all people have to do is pay with chickens. Why chickens. 100 eggs equal one chicken. So a haircut is 3 chickens and 30 eggs. Digital currency don’t scare me. Except they need 86,000 armed IRS agents to collect back taxes from loafers. They never tracked down non payment in the past, and the statute of limitation is only 5 years. Ask Hunter. Both he and his sister (?) have outstanding tax evasion charges pending. Dad looks silly saying “Dey gotta bay dehr fehr cher!” And the public says, “Why they pickin on that boy, he never done nothin!” Sleep children, sleep. Digital currency is great. You won’t have to struggle with paying taxes. They’ll just take it. They have 86,000 reasons you will comply. I was shocked when the job announcement said they need to be willing to carry a gun, and shoot somebody if necessary. I don’t think even the FBI job announcement is that specific. After all, who wouldn’t shoot a tax evader. An M16 isn’t very effective against F16s, so I was told.

My former employer moved several operations to China for the labor cost savings. Prior to that it was Mexico, and still is.
I have audited the facilities in both countries and they all operate to US environmental and quality standards.

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Then nothing to worry about.

They are beginning to ban EVs from the parking garages here.

I think banned from some ferries :ferry: also.

Interesting, but not surprising. I expect to see more and more of this sort of thing in the short-term as fear grows among individuals and companies with potential liability, especially insurers.
In time (hopefully soon), vastly improved methods for storing electricity will become available and we’ll look back at today’s Lithium battery technology as primitive and inappropriate for many of its current applications. It’s too expensive to mine, process, and recycle (and that’s without full environmental cost-accounting), its capacity is too limiting (especially where weight is important), and its tendency to suddenly burst into flames makes it difficult (and risky) to transport and store. FAA alone has verified 472 “Lithium battery air incidents” from March '06 to August '23. Unfortunately, until there is a Li battery-caused disaster (an incinerated apartment tower or a major airline catastrophe, neither the legislative nor executive branches will give regulators the authority or the necessary political cover to enact and enforce effective (and unpopular) battery safety rules.

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Electropluggenbangin.

My intent with posting is to demonstrate the impacts predicted by the science. It hasn’t been to push any particular technology.

Whatever works best with the least cost and environmental impact and as close to carbon neutral as fishable is what interest me.

I don’t have a vested interest in any of the potential solutions. The work on battery technology is a very active and some impressive breakthroughs are being made. They are also looking for alternatives to Lithium for many of the reasons cited. Solar cell technologies are also advancing. That there are deep pockets of Hydrogen being discovered means much of the drilling technology for oil can be used to provide Hydrogen. Nuclear has a place and its problems too. Fussion is in its infancy but has been shown to be feasible at a very small scale, but scaling up is a big challenge.

I would like to point out many RVer’s use solar and battery storage to run their rigs off grid. Sailboats use both wind and solar electric generation to stay at sea for long periods of time to run electronics, refrigeration, lighting, entertainment, etc. Essentially a house on the water off grid.

Led lights charged by small solar cells have been a great boon to the improvised children in underdeveloped nations so they can do their studies at night. No electric grid required.

Atmospheric carbon CO2 direct removable may also be needed. Lots of work being done on that but it is hard to beat what an old growth forest is capable of doing.

I find it hard to argue that we can’t find ways to continue to reduce fossil carbon being converted to CO2. While continuing to improve the quality of life.

Just saying there is no need to be fixed to one solution other than to be reducing carbon pollution.

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I don’t doubt global warming, I don’t doubt that renewable sources are helping. I do doubt the sincerity of advocated for green energy, i doubt that they have our interest at heart. I believe they’re scam artist milking the public as handily as they can, with the cunning of a snake oil salesman. I have no reason to doubt that many believe the danger is imminent. Whether it is or not, I cannot say. I simply distrust them dirty hucksters based on snail track as obvious as gold nuggets dropped on a forest floor. Believe if you must, but I do not trust them and hope there is sufficient time for technology to catch up with their vivid imagination, before they wrestle total control of out lives and all we have to show for it is a bucket of meally worms for dinner.

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House plants.

I spent a little working in quality assurance around the time of the big push south to Mexico in search of cheep labor. The trouble I found is you would fly down to check out a vendor and everything would be up to snuff. Before I was wheels up returning to the states the vendor we just approved in the state of the art plant had outsourced the work again to his cousin across town who had equipment and work practices circa 1900. Even in a plant we owned and built for rebuilding motors and was completely modern. Theses plants are built on huge tracks of land out in the middle of nowhere. I asked about a small building a good quarter mile out back with a well worn trail between it and the plant and the building was billowing smoke. Oh that’s the insulation removal subcontractor I was told. Burning these insulations off worked great and in the states it is not allowed as it is carcinogenic. Down there it was fine to do and it was handled by a subcontractor.

I don’t believe for a second everything we are doing outside our borders is the same as doing it here.

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I drive by daily to/from work and watched as the aircraft carrier was dismantled. It was reduced to a shell then towed to India, if I’m not mistaken. The reason as I learned at the time was the environmental regulations. Less stringent concerns about protection of the workers in handling PCB and asbestos. Word was they beach it and cut it apart, allowing the beach wave to clean the leakage. The US standards result in outsourcing to save money, which is much like a shot in the foot. Like turning a virus that makes animals sick into something that infects humans. Too dangerous to do in US, but it China. They’d let us know if it got out of control. Nothing to worry about. The World Health Organization (WHO - sound like a James Bond movie) has our back.

While much is focused on reduction of fossil fuel to curb greenhouse gases, the livestock industry does its best to not attract attention. They are as crafty as the tobacco industry, justifying their impact by leaning hard on CO2 sequestering grassland while downplaying all the other climate impacting aspects including cow burps, manure management, deforestation and use of water for both raising/processing and for irrigation of fodder.

From Livestock Don’t Contribute 14.5% of… | The Breakthrough Institute : “In short, livestock production appears to contribute about 11%–17% of global greenhouse gas emissions, when using the most recent GWP-100 values, though there remains great uncertainty in much of the underlying data such as methane emissions from enteric fermentation, CO2 emissions from grazing land, or land-use change caused by animal agriculture.”

The article addresses some possible solutions to cutting livestock related GHGs while offering a fair critique of the imprecise science used to measure the data.

You want to impact GHGs? Stop eating meat, or at the very least take it down to one or two days a week. “Meat consumption in the USA exceeds healthy levels by 20–60 % based on recommendations in the 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans” (Reducing meat consumption in the USA: a nationally representative survey of attitudes and behaviours - PMC).

Blaming and banning one or two industries to distract from all the other harmful practices doesn’t reduce overall damage, it just shifts it around. People at all levels from individual to nations are going to have to get their heads out of their butts, whether they’re stuck in there due to ignorance, inability to change (economic reasons), political bias, or plain old unwillingness to change.

Good passage from the book Zigzagging Down A Wild Trail that applies to the nastiest, namecallingest, garbage that some posts include:

KayakerBee, I live in a county where the effects of the culture of Cattlemen Are Gods is barren or weed-infested overgrazed lands (including public land leased for grazing), stupid misuse of what water nature provides, entitlementality, and little incentive to adapt to changing environmental conditions. This doesn’t mean ALL ranchers are sticking their heads in the clay, but there’s ample proof of how the entrenched “heritage” is still seen as an excuse to not adapt. “That’s how we’ve always done it” has got to be the lamest argument for not looking into new ways of producing goods.

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An incredibly under-rated movie has one of the best indictments of our time:

“Let’s imagine… if you glimpsed the future, you were frightened by what you saw, what would you do with that information? You would go to… the politicians, captains of industry? And how would you convince them? Data? Facts? Good luck! The only facts they won’t challenge are the ones that keep the wheels greased and the dollars rolling in.

But what if… what if there was a way of skipping the middle man and putting the critical news directly into everyone’s head? The probability of wide-spread annihilation kept going up. The only way to stop it was to show it. To scare people straight.

Because, what reasonable human being wouldn’t be galvanized by the potential destruction of everything they’ve ever known or loved? To save civilization, I would show its collapse. But, how do you think people responded to the prospect of imminent doom?

They gobbled it up like a chocolate eclair! They didn’t fear their demise, they re-packaged it to be enjoyed as video-games, as TV shows, books, movies, the entire world wholeheartedly embraced the apocalypse and sprinted towards it with gleeful abandon.

Meanwhile, your Earth was crumbling all around you. You’ve got simultaneous epidemics of obesity and starvation. Explain that one! Bees and butterflies start to disappear, the glaciers melt, algae blooms. All around you the coal mine canaries are dropping dead and you won’t take the hint!

In every moment there’s the possibility of a better future, but you people won’t believe it. And because you won’t believe it you won’t do what is necessary to make it a reality.

So, you dwell on this terrible future. You resign yourselves to it for one reason, because that future does not ask anything of you today.

So yes, we saw the iceberg and warned the Titanic. But you all just steered for it anyway, full steam ahead.”
~“Tomorrowland”

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I find it has gotten easier to “not give a damn about what other people think”, but I hope always to do my best at resisting the spiteful and selfish part. It’s quite ugly.