This year I’d hoped to add the Underground Kayak but a my size wasn’t available then there was a divorce in the Rockpool lineup. Next on my list was the Mirage 580. It should be here by mid April. I’ve already decided that the Cetus will be next…now if only Mirage would add that 4th hatch!
MMTS = robert
e-mailing you if you didn’t get it
looks good, real good
Huge cockpit though
Check those dimensions - maybe lotso padding involved for at least the width.
Why do you think it’s the perfect kayak? Curious about your criteria.
After seeing your post I hopped back to the website to see the dimensions and was surprised to see the cockpit listed as that large.
I paddled the prototype extensively and the cockpit was more along the lines of the Capella line (about 31" x 19").
I put a call into Jim Hager to see what was up, and got an email from P&H explaining that the numbers online don’t accurately reflect the final specs for the finished boat (which has just come off the lines). The cockpit will not be that much different from the rest of the boats (and not that large). It will be more aggressively padded out, however, with moveable thigh braces similar to whitewater boats.
–Mark (P&H team guy)
The perfect kayak???
Just looking at the numbers I wonder what make this kayak so much better (or different) then the various Explorer, Nordkapp and all the other “standard” british boats?
I do not have any reason not to believe this will be a great expedition boat but it doesn’t look like anything new to me.
Its better then the Mirage 580??? Why??? What about the Mirage 22?
A few key differences…
All the boats you mentioned are great kayaks with nearly cult status in the paddling world! Although, I wouldn't lump a Nord in with an Explorer...they handle quite differently.
Similarly, the Cetus isn't just "another Brit boat". There are some features that make this boat different.
1) The boat tapers less dramatically in width behind the seat (it's more swede-form than fish form...but not as dramatically swede as other designs), which gives the boat a different feel on the water.
2) A new skeg system. Rather than using a cable to "push" the skeg down, the retractable skeg operates on a "click" slider that pulls the skeg up and allows the paddler dial in how much skeg to deploy. Consider it a best of both worlds system: no exposed cable to kink and no rope to fumble around with.
3) 4th hatch in fore-deck offering access to a sealed knee tube.
4) Whitewater-style outfitting in the cockpit.
Word is that a final production Cetus will be at Canoecopia. Work on the LV version is already underway in the UK.
--Mark (P&H team guy)
More on the skeg system please
What attaches the slider to the skeg?
Probably still what I would consider to be too big - one of these days I’ve gotta connect with a Capella 160 - but for more usual sized male paddlers like my husband what you describe would be better than what is ont he web site.
It’s a little hard to describe…best to see it in person. The skeg connects to the slider with a thin line, which acts as the uphaul. If you run aground with the skeg down, the line just goes slack (no kinks). The slider was engineered specifically for P&H and looks like a traditional skeg slider, but actually clicks into place as you move it up.
That sounds more interesting
"1) The boat tapers less dramatically in width behind the seat (it's more swede-form than fish form...but not as dramatically swede as other designs), which gives the boat a different feel on the water."
Not a fan of the bloated fish designs - and do like volume around hips vs in front with smoother transitions. Like to see this in person...
"2) A new skeg system. Rather than using a cable to "push" the skeg down, the retractable skeg operates on a "click" slider that pulls the skeg up and allows the paddler dial in how much skeg to deploy. Consider it a best of both worlds system: no exposed cable to kink and no rope to fumble around with."
If simple/reliable. Sounds good. I've had non-push, non-rope, precise adjustment for a few years now and would be hard to give up.
"3) 4th hatch in fore-deck offering access to a sealed knee tube."
One thing I may still add to my current kayak...
"4) Whitewater-style outfitting in the cockpit."
I like control, but does this means a lot of gadgets and/or type of fit that limits stoke mechanics (to a more play vs get underway style)? Fine line sometimes, and very hard to suit everyone simply other than to let each custom outfit. As long as this stuff doesn't prevent that it can always be yanked out and not a deal breaker.
That 22" beam kills it though (and makes me suspect deck heights would too - what are the actual specs?). Something like that, at 20" beam with sat 11" foredeck (coaming height at max peak) and 6-7" rear and I might have a contender...
Volume is big, really big
Based on your posts, I doubt you would find its 100 Gal. volume appealing. Overall shape does look interesting from pics on P&H site.
I need space to build…
Haven’t seen anything interesting in a sea kayak for a while.
Don’t get me wrong, many out there I think are great, just not optimal mix for what I’m after.
Only question is, how small of a minority am I in regarding what I’d like: Faster, lighter, more LV, distance/fitness day paddle oriented but also rough water/roll optimized. Not a play boat/rock garden boat, not touring/expedition/gear hauler, not full on racer…). After all what are people really using their kayaks for the majority of the time?
Sounds like the LV might better meet your requirements.
I guess it’s hard to please everyone.
I guess we are the minority
I agree with you. I suspect the problem is many are interested in the “sport” part of kayaking and want play boats for rock gardens/ rough stuff and a big portion think they need a boat to haul camping gear. Not many just want a fast day boat to go out and cruise for the day regardless of conditions. Personally, a more manuverable Outer Island would be neat. The Force is close, just a little big for that purpose.
given my size
i’m champing at the bit to see, sit in, and demo this boat. 22" beam sounds great, not at all wide, and maybe a good fast tourer. i love my current boats, and can’t see myself selling the Cadence, maybe ever, it’s near perfect, yet this boat looks right. it’s all in the paddling however, and that will tell the story for me.
Not “the LV”, not anyone’s current…
… marketing spin version of LV.
LV was simply the acronym for “Low Volume” way before makers started tagging it after the names of their one dimensional chop jobs (some of which may be great, but they are what they are).
Also not (just) the smaller paddler focused LV in my case, at over 200# (though if I built what I envision I would like to offer two sizes scaled for different size/weight ranges as I think I’d have a better market [people who’d “get it”/want it] for the smaller one).
I mean functionally LV, meaning no more kayak than you need. Narrow of beam, good fit to deck without inches of foam (but not sardine can fit either, need to be able to work legs/rotate). Minimal windage. Not intended to haul a lot of gear…
Along those lines…
… have you looked at the Njord?