I am the "some day" person in regards to getting a kayak. I will be picking up a 17' canoe this spring. I was reading a post that mention someone got a sea wind. I googled it and was quite amazed with not only the price but the sail. I would really like to get this on Lake Michigan. I am not quite so sure if I can say the same for the canoe if the waters are not smooth. Besides the price what do you think of this canoe? It really has caught my eye.
Sea Wind in my paddling fleet
I just wrote a post in my fitness paddling blog trying to answer the question "if you could have just one boat to paddle all your races and tours ..."
Search paddling.net forums for sea wind or Kruger canoe.
If a slightly scaled down Sea Wind that didn’t weigh or cost as much, would that have mass appeal?
I keep thinking something about 16’ x 27" with the depth of the original Sea Wind (not the deeper version) would provide a nice platform who want the speed and performance of a Sea Wind but not quite the hull size/weight or expense. Also, it would be made without the need of a rudder but a rudder would certainly be an option.
It wouldn’t have the gear hauling ability of a Sea Wind but I think the folks in the market for such a boat would use it for a week at a time at most. So no need for the all-out toughness of a Sea Wind. It could haul more than a kayak, but still have the nice open cockpit.
Is my idea too close to a Bell Rob Roy? To be honest, I’m not entirely sure.
I’d be interested.
I’ve only paddled a Sea Wind once, but loved it, but can’t come anywhere close to affording one and would certainly appreciate if it was 50 lbs or less, but retains enough toughness for a bit of rock and log bumping on rivers.
I especially like the Kruger seating system.
JEM I would be interested as well. However, would this be a kit boat? Not too handy or have time/space to build a boat these days.
I would not have the need for sailing but would be interested in the rudder option. I think it can be done and there should be a good market for a seaworthy decked canoe that wasn’t bombproof or heavy as are the Seawinds. My only question is the length. I do think the length of the Seawind at 17-6 really contributes to it’s efficiency and by cutting it down to 16 that may suffer some.
Half way between Rob 15 and Sea Wind
JEM, thanks for posting this topic. I just spent the past 15 hours driving home from Canoecopia with visions of a 16’ Rob Roy in mind. What you are describing would fill a niche for trippers who are carrying more than a typical kayak can carry, but want to tackle waters not customarily paddled in a canoe, and do it faster and with more safety.
As you pointed out, most of us don’t need the excess weight and carrying capacity of the Sea Wind, but the Rob Roy 15 is too small for anything larger than a couple small packs.
Recently I purchased a Wilderness Systems Pamlico 145t tandem kayak with this very use in mind. I can take out the stern seat and position the bow seat for solo running, and a skirt is available that can go solo or tandem. However, the Pam 145T is heavy, 65 pounds. It is wider and fuller in the quarters than the Rob Roy so I can fit in two 5000 cubic inch packs. There is a little bit of room on the decks for strapping on a deck bag and spare paddle. Foot braces help provide control and I’ll be adding knee pads where my knees rub against the rails. The small kayak air bag/dry bags will fit in the stems to provide more storage and to aid in floatation when swamped.
My intented use for this craft is rocky, twisty rivers with miles long pools and long reaches into the Bay. I would also like to use such a craft on lakes in the Adirondacks and BWCA and further north, so lightweight (less than 50#) is important.
If I were to replace this Pamlico 145T I’d like to have a little longer (16 vs. 14 or 15), about 27" width and cockpit about 20" x 80" with a coaming that can accept a custom made spray skirt. A rudder is still a question mark. A modified Dolphin type bow appeals to me more than the low swept bow of the Rob Roy which tends to knife into waves. A multi chine hull to aid in sharp turns with either an on-side or off-side lean.
A custom seat similar to the Sea Wind that I can raise and lower and scoot back and forth, and a built in back rest that has a portage yoke on top so I scoot the seat forward and carry the boat backwards.
So far that’s my design questions. Any ideas?
scottb say look at this. it would be his one boat. http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_specs.php?model_id=126
It is pretty. Don’t know anything about them myself.
still too heavy
Looked at that Clipper canoe and it’s 65lb!! Rather have a Seawind…
I was just thinking out loud. Didn’t mean to start trouble! lol
I’ve kicked around the idea of making such a boat like for myself in all fiberglass or kevlar, not wood.
My idea would be to build one-off my like in the “Building Your Own Kevlar Canoe” and then put a plywood deck on it. Got 2 others to finish first before I even start considering that.
Dawn would be an invaluable source of advice:
curious about Dolphin bow
you have a link to a picture of the style bow you have in mind?
Link showing Modified Dolphin-ish bow
Open this page and click on “more views” then click on “3/4 view” to get an idea of the type of bow I’m thinking about.
Then look at the Rob Roy 15 at
to see the more “spear shaped” bow
I’m leaning toward a slightly slower boat that has more fullness in the ends to carry more gear. Also enough rocker to turn easily for threading through rock gardens.
Another example of a moderate rocker with modified upswept bow is the 14’ Liquid Logic Pisgah, seen here http://liquidlogicpisgah.blogspot.com/
The disadvantage to the Pisgah, of course, is the ultra-limited cargo space and tiny cockpit.
The Sea 1 is 55 lbs. The FG version is 65 lbs…can’t remember ever seeing them build a 'glass one though…all the ones I’ve seen were kevlar.
Is the Phoenix Vagabond something
close to what you're looking for? It doesn't have the upswept bow that you listed, but it might be worth a look. You're welcome to paddle mine if you're in the neighborhood.
I've paddled mine mostly solo for day paddles with almost no gear, but I really need a foot brace for the front position before I'll be able to compare it to the Sea Wind that I paddled once. I'm 5'6" and 150 lbs. For me, it really needs a front foot brace to realize it't potential. I plan to install one in the next few weeks and then look into rudder options. With just me in it, it tends to spin a little when I stop paddling. It's pretty maneuverable on rivers with just me in it.
I'd like to install a Sea Wind type seat in it sometime if I could get hold of one and figure out how to install it.
I'll be interested to find out what you decide on.
So more flare and upward sweep. I wonder if that would get grabbed by the wind more?
Sorry for hijacking your thread JPC.
is a good example of what I have in mind…thanks for the offer to paddle, I was just in Central Illinois this weekend traveling to Canoecopia. I sure would like to test paddle the Vagabond.
They don’t have a price on their web page, but their description of kevlar nylon seems it would be strong enough for rocky water use. Which lay up do you have? Does it turn pretty easily?
BTW, the Wind Farms in Central Illinois are beautiful, especially when compared to the big stinking oil refinerary on Big Piney River at the Kentucky/West Virginia state line on Route 64.
The fiberglass / nylon lay up is what I
have and it seems to be pretty tuff. The deck isn’t as sturdy as that of the Sea Wind, so really wouldn’t want to put much weight on it, such as a foot, butt or another water filled kayak. I bought mine used a couple years ago for tandem use, but have used it mostly solo. In reality I haven’t used it much because I haven’t gotten a front foot brace installed and have been using my other smaller boats that do have foot braces.
Phoenix does have a skirt for the Vagabond in their Accessory page.
Looking at their “steals & deals” page, it looks like their prices have increased recently. Probably about $2000 for a new Fiberglass/nylon Vagabond. Give them a call, they’d be glad to help you out.
The folks at Phoenix/Poke Boat usually answer the phone pretty quickly and are pretty good about answering questions regarding the boats.
You’re welcome to try mine out anytime I’m available. The water was hard around here last weekend, so you wouldn’t have been able to test paddle, but you would have been able to look it over.
Here you go.
He’s also making the Sawyer canoes.
Also, the Spring Creek rowing rig will
work on the Vagabond. The Poke Boat folks used to sell it as an accessory, but don’t anymore.
i’ve tried for years
to convince bell to deck the magic or come out with a 16- or 16.5 foot decked canoe. something bigger and faster than the rob roy but not as overbuilt (for most paddlers) and expensive as a sea wind. they’re great boats, i just don’t happen to NEED one. want, yes. NEED/AFFORD? no