I’ve read some of the past postings regarding having/not a skeg. Actually a rudder sounds more intriguing to me. Reasonable to say that much of the paddling we will be doing will have a bit “wind effect”. There is almost always a breeze in the UP, at least where we are.
There are 2 thing that we know
— the outfitter we would be purchasing from sells Wilderness Systems products. This local business is quite involved with promoting the area , so we are going to support them whenever we can vs going to a “box/chain” store.
— probably limited to 10-11 ft, so that we can load into the back of the van vs trying to put on the roof rack. We are almost to medicare age so we make certain concessions to the ageing process.
If a boat ‘needs’ a skeg or rudder, it is a poor design.
Just about every boat can benefit 5 or 10% in efficiency with skeg or rudder.
Not talking for surf or white water.
@string said:
I can’t imagine a 12’ boat needing either rudder or skeg, and I can’t imagine a 10’ boat at all. Not if you are going over a mile.
Necky added a skeg to their Rip 10 simply because that’s the only way to make it go straight.
Yooper16 noted he lives within walking distance of the St. Marys River. Not sure if that’s where they intend to paddle, but the St. Marys has lots of current and freighter traffic in some sections.
The Gales Storm Gathering runs a separate full-day class on the St. Marys: “Come a day early for a full-day course on the St. Mary River, a large-volume river accessed from Sault St. Marie, MI, where we can work on ocean paddling skills, including breaking in and out of eddies, turning on eddy lines, doing ferry crossings, playing in current, and surfing standing waves and holes.” http://www.galesstormgathering.com/index.php/sea-kayaking-course-offerings/paddling-in-current/
A 10-11 foot kayak is a recreational boat, fine for paddling along the shore of small inland lakes or slow moving rivers. I can’t imagine a rudder being installed on such a boat because they’re so short.
In addition to test paddling any kayak under consideration, the outfitter needs to be told where the boat is intended to be paddled. There’s only one Wilderness dealer in the Upper Peninsula (per their website): Downwind Sports with locations in Houghton and Marquette. They’re a sponsor of the Gales Storm Gathering.
@gjf12 said:
If a boat ‘needs’ a skeg or rudder, it is a poor design.
Just about every boat can benefit 5 or 10% in efficiency with skeg or rudder.
Not talking for surf or white water.
So are kayaks with no rudder or skegs perfect or 5-10% inefficient?
A tracking device can make your life easier.You are retired and doing this for fun. Take the device.
Pick a boat you like and take whatever it comes with, skeg or rudder. Both help you track. You can assume the boat designer put a given device on the boat for a reason.
I think a 10 or 12 footer is too little boat, on safety concerns alone, for anyone living in easy reach of the Great Lakes. Splurge on a full Thule rack system with Hullivators or the Malone loader I forget what it is called).
Try to avoid getting deeply into a skeg/rudder debate. It just gets complicated against what you have indicated are your paddling goals.
Wife and I have 11.5’ Perceptions with drop down skegs, absolutely love them! We’ve taken ours out on the Tahquamenon River (rivermouth) and Indian Lake.
Depending on the boat they can both make your paddling more relaxing and enjoyable. Each will make a turny boat track better and a rudder can help you with tracking and steering but a small boat shouldn’t need a steering aid. I had one long boat that handled completely different with a rudder deployed.
The traditionalists will tell you a rudder is not meant for turning but ask this old guide when taking beginners in a tandem on a tour though twisty mangrove tunnels, he’ll beg to differ.
If possible try the boats out first.
Do yourselves a big favor and at the very least try out boats that are at least 14 feet; longer would even be better. If transporting is the limiting factor, that can be completely changed with a proper trailer.
Yes, there are a few great boats that require no rudder, nor skeg, but you probably aren’t likely to run across them. Just for curiosity, you might want to take a look at nckayaks.com and see what I’m talking about.
Personally, I would always choose a boat with a skeg rather than a rudder, with the exception of a surf ski. Believe me, you will learn to appreciate a skeg on most boats. I’ve paddled lots of boats with rudders, but I just prefer a skeg, or nothing at all as is the case on my longest sea kayak.
Thanks. Birdseye Outfitters is the name of the business that we rented Pungo 120s from last year. They just opened in 2016, so may not be on any radar yet. I may have misunderstood, but I thought they were a distributor as they do have 3 or so for sale and from what he said. But I very well could have misunderstood.
Thanks for the thoughts on what to consider. The Aspire 105 was what prompted the question.
We intend to pretty much stick to the St Marys, and down to Munuscong Bay, Detour area, over to St. Ignace and from Whitefish Bay east to the Soo. Someday we may get more adventuresome. Would like to actually but-----
we have 2 boxers and an Old Englsih Sheepdog and while they are fine by themselves with virtually no issues at all, we really don’t like to leave them for more than a 5-6 hours at a time. They are part of the family unit and as such we consider their needs in our plans.
Realize that deciding what to get, based on transport is not the best determining factor, but it is involved. Neither of us are very large 5-8 @ 145# and 5-10 at 160#, so lifting to the top of the van is going to require a hoist system or the alternative as suggested being a trailer. If we do a roof rack system, inches are important to be able to get the van in the garage at night etc.
It is nice that at our present stage of life---- the biggest decisions we have to make is the size and how to transport a kayak.
@Yooper16
Your planned trips look great. Hopefully the ice will melt one of these days.
The linked site was built by four ACA instructors as a result of paddler fatalities on Lake Michigan. They present a pretty good description of the types of kayaks being marketed. http://www.paddlesafely.com/kayaks/ Lots of other good info there as well. Most kayaks in the recreational category have but one sealed bulkhead in the stern, so it’s worth considering a well-secured flotation bag in the bow. The bags are quite reasonable in price and a nice safety measure.
Pungos are fine rec boats that have stood the test of time. Relatively quick, comfortable, stable as a rock. I have a 120 and 140 that are used by my grandsons and friends.
They will handle bumpy water, but not big water.
Years ago I talked my brother into launching a 120 in mild surf. He made it to the first little wave.The boat floated full of water.
Rookie— based on your postings you obviously are not, at least in the water way.
Overstreeet-- agreed on the age thing. Think I am more in awe that we made it this far.
String— We will probably do a pungo, mostly because of the business in town we want to support and from last years experience the seat was supportive and not uncomfortable.
@Yooper16 said:
Rookie— based on your postings you obviously are not, at least in the water way.
Overstreeet-- agreed on the age thing. Think I am more in awe that we made it this far.
String— We will probably do a pungo, mostly because of the business in town we want to support and from last years experience the seat was supportive and not uncomfortable.
Given your sizes a Pungo 120 will be fine. I use my 120 for river and swamp trips. At 230 I’m too heavy for it but for a boat that tracks nicely , it also turns easily.