Clearly some very unhappy customers here, who feel ignored in their requests for information on the timing of their orders. This is an unfortunate situation, as the Trak kayak looks impressive based on the videos I’ve seen.
I will give a shout out to the manufacturer of my folding kayak, the Pakboat Quest 150. It does not look exactly like a hard shell (as the Trak 2.0 appears to pull off), but it paddles very close to a traditional sea kayak, and was promptly delivered. When I had questions, the owner of Pakboats (Alv) personally emailed me. The difference in paddling one of my sea kayaks vs. my Quest 150 is that the hull of the Quest absorbs some of the force of the wave, so the ride feels “dampened.” Not bad, but different.
I will echo the praise above for Pakboat. They have always been promptly responsive when I have contacted them – small operation and personal service. They even welcome feedback. Very nice folding kayaks (I have owned 4 of their models) and canoes and the most affordable US based suppliers of traditional skin on frame folding boats. They recently suffered a tragic setback when a fire destroyed a large number of their boats in stock but they have been very upfront with keeping their customers informed as to what is going on.
So I called Trak again this week and Jason answered. Not surprisingly, he confirmed that deliveries supposed to happen this month will now happen “on the first batch of 2020”… It seems that they are facing some logistic issues, not production.
For what it is worth, you can request at anytime an update on your order using the link below. I did get an instant reply with a bunch of details about what is going on. It could be just random numbers generated to calm down customers, but I will give Nolin the benefit of doubt on this one. At least, the email doesn’t hide that some of the original Kickstarter backers are expected to receive their boats only this month (maybe Trak should mention this detail on their sales page…).
Jason did mention that I could reach out to a Trak Pilot and request a loaner if I have a trip or some special event coming before I receive my boat. It might be just marketing BS, but it was kind of nice.
@brian There are abundant reviews praising the Trak 2.0. Unfortunately, most of the reviews online seem to be biased, if not sponsored by Trak. The paddling.com reviews tend to be shallow, most boats get 4+ stars easily. When I started this thread, I was trying to uncover the issues of using the Trak 2.0 kayak on a regular basis because it is not a cheap kayak that you can easily trade afterwards. Unfortunately, the discussions quickly turned to the delivery issues that Trak is facing. By the way, @brian I tried to post a review linking to this thread to make new buyers aware of the situation and it seems that I was censored…
There seems to be a lot of pent-up anger about the insanely overdue delivery dates of the Kickstarter Trak 2.0 kayaks. I can’t say it isn’t justified, but my experience with the company has largely been pleasant, despite the ongoing frustration. Got my boat about three weeks ago.
It is a marvel of engineering.
It took them a while, but at some point during the wait, the company came to understand the need to be more communicative. Most of the delays were attributed to manufacturing/engineering issues, which, according to the company, ultimately resulted in a better product. Their explanations seemed sincere.
I haven’t paddled mine yet so I can comment on the boat’s performance. Set up on our dining room floor it is a beautiful (mine is a deep red) boat.
As a skin-on-frame kayak, steps are required that you don’t have in a kayak with bulkheads, i.e. inflatable storage/flotation bags and the need for an aquasock.
After assembling and breaking it down several times I’m less intimidated by the engineering. Still, at the end of a long paddle, the breakdown is going to be exhausting.
Whereas you might be able to check the Trak 2.0 on an airplane, it’s going to cost you. The rolling bag with folded kayak weighs 62 pounds and the H+W+D is 72 inches.
The complexity of the boat is worrisome — get sand or mud on one of the three jacks and you might have problems, same for the shock-cord tubing that makes up the boat’s framing — but if you want to travel to the far reaches and take your kayak with you, this may be your best option.
All that said, I’m hopeful — maybe even optimistic — I’ll have great paddling experiences in this kayak.
While I greatly admire the Trak 2.0 (encountered a pair of them in real life last year at a local lake and got to talk to one of their “pilots” about the boat and watch them break one down) and admit to some interest in owning one, I have to take issue with Valsdad with his comment about the 2.0 being “your best option” for overseas travel. PakBoat still makes competent and seaworthy folding kayaks that are half the weight of a Trak 2.0. Their Quest 150 is 31 pounds and is reasonably easy to set up and break down. I have the slightly smaller Quest 135 which is 28 pounds and I can pack the entire boat PLUS all my gear including a 4 piece paddle, PFD and all my safety and paddling clothing including hard sole boots, in a rolling duffel that is UNDER the maximum unified dimensions and 50 pound weight limit for domestic and overseas baggage allowance with no excess fees. I took my smaller (24 pound) Pakboat Puffin to the UK two years ago that same way and paid NO baggage fees, though I flew coach on a discounted ticket. I was only paddling small inland rivers so that 12’ boat was fine for that trip. But I have no hesitance in taking the 13’ 8" Quest in coastal waters – it performs very comparably to the legendary and now (unfortunately) extinct Feathercraft Wisper sea kayak (I own one of those too.) Even the Wisper, which is dimensionally similar to the Trak 2.0, is only 37 pounds.
Yes, the Trak boats are cleverly engineered and impressive in the water, but they are still heavy and technically problematic.
And (not a minor point) the Pakboat XT and Quest models are 1/3 of the price of a Trak kayak.
Thanks for the link. I wasn’t aware of its existence. That would have been a good thing for TRAK to let everyone who’s “waiting patiently” know about.
I see the email is marked “confidential” at the top. I will not be posting the contents at this time, but I encourage someone else less cautious to do so.
Do you figure the order number matches the invoice number? If this is the case and given past performance, I’m unlikely to receive my boat until late next year.
@Sparky961 I had the same thoughts regarding the invoice number - mine is on the 2100s. Trak got 172 backers on the Kickstarter campaign and, per the email, all remaining Kickstarter backers will get their boats this year, along with pre-orders on the 1800s and 1900s. Therefore I would be around #200 on the line. During my phone call, they mentioned a “big shipment” expected at the beginning of next year to cover hundreds of orders, so I guess that’s how they are estimating the Spring/2020 delivery. Let’s hope the supply chain hiccups are over.
Thanks, Willowleaf. I’ll educate myself on the PakBoat. I’m a great fan of simplicity, and the Trak 2.0, impressive though it may be, is anything but simple. In its defense the Trak, it appears to be an efficient, seaworthy touring kayak. Will be interested to see how the PakBoat compares in that regard. And, not to quibble over semantics, but I wrote “this may be your best option” for travel to the far reaches.
I would never say that the Pakboats are as sleek as a Trak – the Traks are impressively stiff and probably perform like a high end composite. Folders like Feathercraft and Pakboat are more flexible – though that does increase drag somewhat, the flexibility and the “give” in the fabric skin means that they feel different in the water and are more forgiving in rough water since they absorb some of the wave force rather than ricochetting off them. But the longer and narrower folders are very seaworthy – oceans have been crossed in them and I’ve known outfitters who use them in Alaska and Patagonia. I’ve paddled my Feathercraft folders in the coastal Atlantic and Pacific and the Great Lakes.
In terms of simplicity, I imagine that emergency repairs in the field would be a lot easier with a Pakboat kayak than with a Trak. The keel adjusting pistons seem a weak link to me with the Traks and likely add to the excessive weight. I would be more tempted to buy a Trak myself if it did NOT have that feature. I think the design is good enough that most people would desire the boats without that novelty.
I actually wrote the company inquiring about the necessity of the jacks. Nolin wrote back saying the keel jack was essential, but they are developing ways to eliminate the two side jacks, which he said added about two pounds each. The jacks seem sturdy enough, though I don’t know how they will hold up once exposed to sand and mud. In theory the sea sock should insulate the jacks against exposure to such. Just looked at the assembly video for the Quest 150. Seems to be much more complicated than the Trak assembly
The Quest assembly seems complicated at first, but once you go through it a few times it becomes much more straightforward and automatic. I have not watched any videos (there were none available when I bought the Quest 4 years ago) but had found the written instructions that came with the boat really terrible. Fortunately there were a couple of Quest owners on the foldingkayaks.com forums who helped me through the first assembly. After that I shot a series of close up shots of each step in the assembly and posted them on Flickr with my own text instructions to help others who were flummoxed by the vagueness of some of the manufacturer’s directions. I shared that with a number of new owners and it’s still available.
The problem with the Pakboat assembly manuals is that I think they are written by Alv (the designer) who knows the boats so well that I think he has trouble understanding the perspective of a person who is new to them.
Once I knew all the steps and could lay out all the components to make the process easy, I have always been able to assemble the various Pakboats I have owned in less than half an hour. I can set up the smallest 12’ Puffin in 20 minutes if I am feeling energetic. Since the Pakboats (like many traditional folders) require inflation of sponson tubes to do the final skin tightening, that adds to the assembly time. So, yes, it takes about twice as long to set up a Pakboat as a Trak. But what’s 15 or even 20 minutes in the big picture? I don’t set up and break down my boats every time I use them. My Quest has been set up since last May and currently hangs in the basement rafters. I transport it on Thule J-racks for local outings. And, of course the big difference: the cost of a Trak is 2 1/2 to 3 times that of a Pakboat.
Another feature of the Quest that the Trak can’t offer is the ability to use it as an open boat, without the deck (a nice option in warm weather and if one wants to fish or take along a dog). And when used with the deck for multi-day trips, access to packed gear under the deck is very easy since it can be peeled back from either end. Pakboat’s XT line can’t be used without the deck BUT several models can be converted from a tandem to a solo by switching the decks (seats are moveable). Pakboats can also be safely used in moderate whitewater, not something I would attempt in a Trak.
In the end, they are different boats and suitability is going to be up to the needs (and budget) of the buyer. Pakboats are cheaper, technologically simpler and substantially more portable (lighter). Traks are quicker to set up and higher performance.
By the way (a bit off the topic of kayaks) Pakboat also makes folding canoes. I am only mentioning that because they offer an option to modify the keel line of a couple of their canoe models so you can tune the performance to conditions, as Trak does. With the 15’ and 16.5’ Pakcanoes you can get two different sets of ribs so that you can convert a wider bottomed flatwater touring hull to a deeper, narrower white water profile. Their canoes so modified have run the rapids of the Grand Canyon.
I did just check the Pakboat site and it looks like they have stopped production of the XT line and are focusing on the Puffin and Quest models for now. Pakboat lost a lot of stock in a major warehouse fire within the past year which may have forced them to do some streamlining. I’ve often wondered if Feathercraft’s unfortunate demise a few years ago was hastened along by their offering too wide of an array of costly new models instead of sticking with and refining the basic fleet that had been the core of their business.
Appreciate your thoughtful (and thorough) reply, willowleaf. Cost is less a concern (since I already have the Trak) than portability and weight, both categories the Pakboat seems to win hands down. And setup time is not a big issue. I suppose it’s possible to assemble a Trak in 10 minutes as advertised, but 20 to 30 minutes is a more reasonable estimate. The deciding factor, then, would be performance, a category in which I expect the Trak at 16’x22” would dominate. I’m curious, too, if Pakboat recommends use of a sea sock and some sort of inflatable flotation bags fore and aft?
I’ve never looked into whether Pakboat “recommends” use of flotation bags or sea sock because I have always had and used both (I started kayaking with a Feathercraft Kahuna folder 18 years ago and they came with custom float bags and a sea sock). I’m guessing they do mention float bags but they don’t sell their own version. I have never taken out a folder or my rigid skin on frame kayak without float bags fore and aft – it’s just part of the routine. Nor should a Trak be paddled without them.
I’ve always had a sea sock or two but have only used them a few times in cold or deep open water when I was going to be a ways from shore. Sea socks are kind of a pain, to be honest.
I’m late to the party, I see. Perhaps some of you have already received your TRAK in the meantime? I ordered my kayak in early June and unfortunately have been experiencing the same lack of communication. I was glad to find the Pre-Order Update Request link above. Why on earth did they not just send that to me already instead of giving me BS about “factory updates” over and over?!
I’m also scheduled for a Spring 2020 delivery now I see, but if this gets pushed back further (which I fear is more than likely) I shall have to change my summer plans.
Hopefully, it will be worth the wait. To people who find this thread afterwards and are thinking of ordering this kayak: beware!
Absolutely no change for me since the last update to this thread. No proactive communication from them, no communication from me because I know it’s a waste of my time.
If there were other companies offering a similar product with better customer service they would have my business.