Does anyone have a comment on the Trak Kayak featured in the Newsletter today? I’m ready to buy this boat but I always check with my P.Net pals first. This sounds like the Dream Boat we discussed about a year and a half ago. How are “put together boats” overall? Do you think the skin is really tough enough to drag over rocks like they present on their vidio? I’m waiting to hear back from them for the price. My guess is that “boats in a bag” cost more. Anybody have an idea what a good price for this PSDBIAB might be? (Perfect Solution Dream Boat In A Bag). As always…it’s is a pleasure chatting
quite interesting that
you can also bend the boat into a crescent/banana shape right-left…to combat weathercocking…hmmmmmmmm or paddle in circles REALLY well!!!
$?
I can’t even guess what price they’d ask - let us know!
Trying hard to find fault
…so far no go.
A bit pricey, a bit short and a bit wide, but the technology looks bang-on.
I’d love to demo one.
Price is in Buyer’s Guide at left.
Select “Boats” and click on “Trak” for details.
$5575…Yikes!
Looks like it’s built off of Yost folder basics, then makes a paradigm shift into glider technology. Pretty darn cool idea really. Could make for a sweet day boat at 22" X 16’. Make it 20-21" wide and you’re in there. I’d like to see some real expedition reports of a 21" X +17’ version to see how they really hold up to serious wear and tear.
So yeah, I’d really love to give one a go, but I don’t think I could ever justify the price.
Jim
website
The website said to call for pricing - maybe they’ll run a special?
It is just another folding kayak
Can also change shapes with Feathercrafts. Folding kayaks do very well being run up over smooth slippery rocks sharp ones would present a problem, especially loaded. Folding kayaks have been around since 1907. This one is not as innovative as the company would want you to believe.
Thanks eveybody, as always…
one stop on the Pnet Message Board and I get an education.
Maybe President Bush should give us a try with the war problems.
Looks like it developes good rocker
but what happens when the hydraulics break?
When I am healed up, I’ll demo one, but I’d need to demo other folders to compare.
I wish it was “all that”, but…
– Last Updated: Oct-25-06 3:47 PM EST –
... at that price, and those dimensions (sized by committee?), and that's all it does, and even if quality is superb and that skin is amazing (no reason to doubt those) - nope.
It seems to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist. Has anyone here ever been paddling and thought: "Gee, I could really use more/less rocker right now!"?
How about just setting it halfway or so (or whatever your personal sweet spot for your weight) and forget it? Turning? Did you see the video? At full rocker it's still cutting a big circle. Who flat turns like that anyway? Just edge/lean a bit - more rocker to be had doing that than the 2" adjustment. Edging IS adjustable rocker on demand. Besides, 2" of rocker is not that much on a 16' kayak. About average I'd think. Less is better? No rocker is good? (takes a rare kayak to find that to be true). Tracking differences? Learn to paddle. Speed difference? On same hull otherwise it's not going to be much - and I can't see the target market sweating a tenth of a knot difference in top end. I'd even bet it's faster/cleaner through the water set midway (or higher) than it is at zero anyway. It's not a hardshell and straight sections behave differently in regards to laminar flow/boundary layer turbulence. Torque it to one side to combat weathercocking? Interesting concept, but while we're morphing kayak shapes how about lowering that 12" high aft deck!!! Maybe just drop off $2K and add a rudder? Hull looks a bit simple/slab-sided too. Might be good, might be bad. Sure can't tell much from the pictures (and I've seen both videos too).
Might decent for casual paddling (except the price), but doesn't appear to be a step up. How about keeping the quality and material innovations (?), skipping the gizmos, making a decent touring (sea) hull, cutting the weight to under 45# (in pack - why is the pack 11 pounds?), and getting the price under $3K. Then MAYBE it would be an interesting (expedition capable even) folder - but still not for a wide market.
If we can make our own Yosts for 1/3 this (OK, without the nice welded PU skin) - why can't they be produced for similar prices to hard shells? Complexity (part count and component cost) and VOLUME! Folder market is SMALL. It will stay that way until someone introduces a tough light high performance folder that can run with the hardshells (or can create something cheaper for the rec/fishing/hunting market).
I feel sorry for the investors who got sucked in by the hype and slick video prospectus (well produced yet painful to watch for those of less than true faith in the revolution). Even among the luxury SUV set who have to have the latest big ticket toys this one's a stretch.
But what do I know? At least they've managed to launch (power of OPM?), and seem to be giving it a serious go. There is something cool about it (maybe just the hardshell color/look?), and I wish them well. I just can't help wondering if they're paddling down a dead end or paying the way for more savvy competition...
Would like to see/demo, but purely out of curiousity - not purchase interest (or ability! Ouch!).
The rocker adjusts 5 to 6 inches!
– Last Updated: Oct-25-06 5:04 PM EST –
at each end and I have often wished my explorer has less when I was plodding through flat water.
The skin is thermoformed urethane so it when on the frame has an inherant shape flexibility to flex as the frame is changed. if the hydraulics fail the frame is stable enough to get home So we have a new skin material along with hydraulics to change the frame shape. Fairly innovative to me. I,ve never paddles a decent folder though. How is going from bag to boat in 10 minutes (with practice I'm sure).
Lot's of people trashing it who have not seen it.
I'd like to paddle it
Not criticizing the boat
But other than on the fly rocker adjustment, there just is not that much innovation. Okay, so your hull can change shape from inside the cockpit. So what? I can do that with my Khatsalano by inflating or deflating the sponsons. Adjustable rocker? First Light had that 7 years ago. 10 minute assembly? Folbot, Klepper, the smaller Feathercrafts. Factory direct? Folbot and QCC. ( Folbot guarantees their boats for life to the original owner. I had a coaming break on a 2nd hand model and they replaced it, free). In the past, folding kayak companies have been pretty quiet in announcing their products and even their existance. TRAK is screaming its arrival on the scene. It may be a great boat. I seriously doubt it will change the way I look at kayaks.
Where do you see that info?
– Last Updated: Oct-25-06 11:52 PM EST –
Not doubting you Peter, just asking as I don't see it on their site. I got 2" off their old promo video - but if they changed that it would be interesting to know. The video on their homepage does look like more than 2", but 6" of rocker would be a bit ridiculous, no? It would at least bring the cost to under $1000 per inch of rocker adjustment *L*
Some of the people criticizing HAVE paddled other decent folders, some several, and some have built skinboats - so we're not commenting from a total vacuum on this stuff.
It is interesting that Seals has done a custom skirt for it that allows watertight access to the levers. Sounds like a workaround, but as long as it works, right?
Wonder if the long levers present the HUGE snag hazard potential on wet exit they appear to...
BTW - I'm not "criticizing", I'm "rethinking" *L*
I’ve got my sources
For folks who drive multiple boats, the 17 footer might be pretty cool. How much does a new khatasano cost? about 4700.
the shell is made of material used by the military for 5000 gallon fuel bladders.
Of course that is no guarantee against abrasion.
Levers fold flat to the frame and use hydraulics for leverage; they are quite short.
Like I said, I’d want to paddle a folder or two before I buy but I am very interested.
Yikes is right!!!
Damned that’s pricey. Hmmmmm- - - I don’t think so!
OK - - I’m Cheap, I’ll admit it, but for that price, it better paddle itself.
So Trek, if you’re listening, how about
passing that Bad Boy around for a little test spin? Just one sacrificial PSDBIAB ( Perfect Solution Dream Boat In A Bag) for the P.netters.
We’ll have something to chat about all winter long. We will reflect on what a good company Trak was because they had confidence in their special project.
I’ll even oversee the project for you!
Its oversell might backfire
As the Little Wing oversell has done.
Take a “Wait and See” approach
>Does anyone have a comment on the Trak Kayak featured in the Newsletter today? I’m ready to buy this boat but I always check with my P.Net pals first…
I’m new to the forum, but I would highly recommend you hold onto your $5500 until the claims of the manufacturer are verified by thorough testing and “unbiased” review of the boats design, claimed innovations, assembly time, and materials used. This is a start-up company, and they are making some extremely progressive claims that demand further review.
Best to take a wait and see approach. Spending $5500.00+ for a 16ft X 22.5in X 47lb folding kayak requires a leap of faith at this early stage. A proven Feathercraft Wisper of similar size and lighter weight (15.7ft X 23.5in X 37lbs) costs $2000 less.
Both boats use similar materials, and assembly methods, as seen on their websites. This isn’t rocket science.
http://www.yostwerks.com - Folding Kayak Builders Manual.
Regards,
Tom
Hello Tom
We talked some at Raystown. Nice to have you participating at this forum. Welcome aboard. – Randall (one of NT’s friends)