This is a follow up to my other post. I am considering an Advantage and now a Magic. I had a Magic and could paddle it about 5.0 - 5.5 mph (GPS) at crusing speed and got about 4 uncorrected strokes per side before it veered.
How much faster would the Advantage be? How fast can you paddle the Advantage adn how many hits per side (uncrorrected) can you get with it?
sorry for all the boat questions.
thanks
Matt
Wow, that’s fast.
Perhaps you should get a Jet Ski. What the big hurry? Relax dude.
You should be racing !
If you are doing that speed at “cruising” !
Cheers,
JackL
advantage Seems faster
At the races I have been in it seems the Advantage is faster. At the General Clinton Regatta thelast few times I did it I would start early then the solos(I am not a great racer and was running in the stock class) They would start the solos about an 1/2hour after the stock oats. The first Stock solos to pass were the Classic XLs, then the Advantages. and Otegans. I wasn’t passed by any Bell solo or stock boats. I had seen several at the start line with Numbers so I know they entered. I the whole race the only Bell boat to pass me was a Bell 3x27 proboat and that was after a bunch of croziers, Dillers ,Corbi and Wenonahs had already passed us.
well…
There are two used boats I have an opportunity to buy / trade for. I have a maneuverable boat and am looking to round out my fleet with a fast sit and switch boat.
I am quite OCD about boats as you probably have noticed. I admit it.
I hate asking questions like this. Reason I am asking is the Magic really seems to have an edge on the Advantage in every sense except for speed and tracking.
I am trying to see of the speed of the Advantage is great enough to outweigh all of the Magic’s advantages.
Is speed a huge issue in paddling…no…but for me if I already have a Wildfire and am looking for a fast boat for the purpose of just going fast and for workouts, etc. then speed is of the essence.
I like lots of things about paddling. Going fast is not the most enjoyable thing to me about paddling…but it is pretty fun. I think it is a blast to go fast across the water and I really like getting a good workout.
That is the reason I want speed. And I know what I can do in the Magic as I have quantified it with GPS. Just trying to get a tangible idea of how much faster the Advantage might be to see if it is worth the shortcoming it has compared to the Magic in terms of wind performance, sea worthiness, stability, capacity, and in my case…price.
Matt
Perhaps it comes down to this
Do you relish going out in the snot more than you relish going a little bit faster?
Fast= Wenonah Voyager
No question about the workout.
I have a Rapidfire and a friend with an Advantage has no problem keeping up with me.
Advantage v. Magic
Advantage is definitely faster. How much so for you, only you can tell
From C-1 stock racing experience I’ve had, never seen a competitive Magic whereas Adv. in hands of strong paddler can still stay within site of faster Classics & XL’s
Have you considered an older racing hull for those times when you gotta go as fast as possible ? They can often be had pretty cheaply
I usually get 5 stokes before switching in my Voyager, GRB Classic or formerly owned Adv
What’s the big hurry?
nessmuk wrote:
…What the big hurry?
To get to THE NEXT pond nessmuk!..LOL…LOL
Still rolling-the-eyes…
paddling…where/when?
Just my $.01-opinion but you might want to try bringing your canoe(s) and paddling skills to a few different locations, just to see what you end up focusing on…
$.01
Old racing solos
Glen L has a good idea. You only want it for speed and exercise so seaworthiness is not a factor. The Advantage will outrun the Magic; thats the main reason we don’t see Bell solos in the races around here. And the Advantage handles the rough water we get on the big Adirondack lakes during the 90 miler since a bunch of them are always in the race and finish. If the Bell was superior in rough water, some would use them and should place well, but it does not happen.
The older competition canoes are faster than the Advantage, but no longer fast enough to win races. The J-series Wenonahs, the rare K-series Wenonahs, the C-1W and C-1F will give you fast paddling. The C-1W will give you seaworthiness, the J-180 thru J200 will give you a really fast ride, and a learning experience on anything but glass smooth water.
Just for fun i bought an early J-180 from a retired racer. Under $500 for a barely scratched canoe. And 23# on the scale. It is fast, faster than me in such a squirrely canoe. Short fast strokes ahead of the knee and it goes 6.5-7.0 with no effort. Faster and i am swimming, but its fun and a watersport. The later revised J-193, J-203 are more forgiving and faster yet.
Look on the racing websites around your area. The New York Marathon Canoe Racing Association has a trader section on their website, the Saint Lawrence Valley Paddlers, also here in New York do the same.
Bill
Agree with Plaid Paddler and GlenL
I paid $400 a few years ago for a J-190 and if you want a fast C-1, the racing hulls are fast.
My oldest daughter likes it so much it is at her house and I can’t get it back.
My wife likes it so much, we are keeping our eye open for another one.
I enjoy the heck out of going fast in it in a straight line, but turning it is a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE.
Cheers,
JackL
Turning
Just curious how those boats handle the Brown’s Tract Inlet?
Do they heel nicely or is there alot of skidding?
Mike
As I have been told; “Lean and Pray”
– Last Updated: Aug-05-09 1:36 PM EST –
I wouldn't worry too much about Browns tract, although I wouldn't be able to get around the tight corners without coming to a stop and then sweeping forward and then sweeping backwrds . But then I am the amateur of amateures in a J boat.
It is the open Lakes that I would worry about.
I never worry about Brown's tract in our C-2. My bow paddler has the meanest cross bow rudder in the race.
Cheers,
JackL
Speed
– Last Updated: Aug-05-09 1:41 PM EST –
In a head to head with several different paddlers and double blade sticks, we've GPS timer Magic to 7.1 mph, RapidFire to 7.3, both in deep water. Worth noting RF is under race specs
Advantage is longer than either so will ultimately be faster, especially more so in shallow water. That said, several have switched to Magic from Advantage because they want to finish the race. There is a large seakindly gap between the two.
Dedicated race boats are faster yet. Our of date ones can be had inexpensively, If cost is immaterial, the GRE Stinger is the one to grab, and a stu8nning manufacturing effort.
Using published length not measured waterline lengths, calculated hull speed for RF is 5.96mph, Magic is 6.16, Advantage is 6.26 and an 18.5 race boat 6.62mph. What that indicates is that nobody wins races at hull speed. Winners do better than that; more spinach and Wheaties are required.
Not at hull speed?
I race against people in Florida who can push a C1 to 6.4 and 6.5 on average over the course of 12 miles.
That’s pretty darn close to 6.62.
I think Charlie is saying that winners
… push their boats beyond “theoretical” hull speed, as your experience also confirms
1 Like
John Edwards et ux
man it hurts when those C-1 guys come flying by a C-2.
In the 90 miler all you can hear is them jabbering back and forth as the pack of them comes by like you are standing still.
Cheers,
JackL
C1 vs C2
Curious as to why a C1 would be faster than a C2?