I currently have Werner Camano paddle and have a Werner Cyprus on order… I am working on a high angle paddle stroke (1 reason out of many why i am going w/the Cyprus)i watch the cadence of people i paddle with and i am in the water at the same time as the some of these people but i am a lot slower…will it make a difference when i start paddling with the Cyprus?
Slower- your cadence is lower, or are you a boat that is moving slower?
I made that switch…
from Camano to Cyprus and shorter as well. I personally found that a higher angle stroke made it easier (more natural) for me to rotate my torso which was both faster and saved my shoulders. You can do that with either style, I just found it more natural with the high angle.
To get the most you may want a class or video on a good forward stroke using a high angle.
I also went from a 230cm to 210cm when I went to a Cyprus.
guess i am not on my game…not sure what you mean? I have a Scorpio Lv 16" 8" or so the other people are paddling glass boats @ 17’ +.will this make any difference?
took a class and watch videos
just started high angle paddling really a couple of weeks ago. unfortunately i can not paddle every day , so i am restricted to the weekends (3 day weekends ) and am fairly new to sea kayaking. just trying to figure it all out.
bent or straight?
you get more torso twist with a bent shaft if you use it at some sort of offset (NOT 0 degrees) and torso rotation, regardless of shaft pitch angle, will result in a stronger stroke. Straight shafts are OK @ O degrees but I like a little offset with either paddle.
In at the toes, out at the knee (it will actually come out at the thigh)
I noticed your post below that you are reasonably fresh to paddling.
How tall are you, what length is your Camano, what length Cyprus did you order?
It is very difficult to do arm chair coaching on the forward stroke
I am 5’ 1+"
My Camano is 210, and the Cyprus is 205. I have taken 1 lesson(recently).
why do you get more rotation w/ a bent? i recently switched from feathered to straight. just easier for me to concentrate on 1 thing @ a time for right now.
Some paddling with a wing
will really help you develop good rotation -
The Cetus LV should be among the faster of sea kayaks so that should not be slowing you down, just the opposite.
See if you kan keep your knees together for a better rotation and perhaps remove the seat pad for a more slippery seat while practicing that.
Getting a forward stroke class (from a good instructor, not just anyone) and watching a video or two repeatedly and practicing will help. Epic used to sell their forward stroke video really cheap (the video tape version) - $3 + $3 shipping. Decent video, I’d say. There is also a DVD from Ben Lawry you could buy for that same purpose.
Watch for a quiet entry and exit from the water - if you are drawing air bubbles in the water or lifting water on the way out - fix your mechanics. That alone will help a lot for the efficiency of your stroke in the water, regardless of the other components of the stroke…
It’ll be faster because…
The new paddle will likely come in allover lighter weight. Werner says that the Camano is a light swing weight. Compared to either of my Euros (Cyprus and Epic Signature) I respectfully disagree.
The shorter length (you have a 210 now and are going to a 205 if I recall correctly) will make it easier to pick up your cadence (as will less weight). It will also force you to rotate more and go for shorter strokes, which can increase cadence.
The Camano is a low angle blade, more long than short and kinda fat like the Cyprus. I suspect though I can’t prove it that you’ll tend to have shorter and faster strokes with the Cyprus blade shape.
As to straight shaft vs bent, that is pretty individual. I didn’t go with a bent shaft Werner because their angles and placement just flat out don’t work for me. While I find my H2O WW bent shaft paddle and most Lendal bent shafts to paddle quite comfortably, the Werner just hits me all wrong. But that’s just me - I know people who find Werner’s to be the best of the bent shaft paddles as well.
You really need to just get that paddle and start working with it. The Cyprus can be a smidge insistent on being paddled at the angle it wants, over time I’d be surprised if it didn’t train you to a faster stroke.
Thanks…i’m hopeful @least.
Of course I’ve had a lot a Werner paddles and liked them, but now I’m a Lumpy convert.
thoughts on speed
I don’t notice an increase in overall speed when i go from low to high angle or vice versa. Once i get my boat up to the speed i want i keep it there by keeping my cadence up- as others have mentioned.
I don’t necessarily think a short shafted paddle lends itself to a faster cadence. With a longer shaft and lower angle stroke there is less body motion with every stroke and the blades stay closer to the water making it easier to keep a faster cadence. I believe high angle strokes benefit speed when boat tracking is poor or when you are giving it full throttle for sprints/races.
I hate to say it, but a 17’ boat might be at the edge of what someone your size should be paddling if speed is critical. Just thinking of the drag inherent in that long of a kayak hull. Though i know it’s probably a nice fit for you, narrow, and light, so those things help.
Bottom line is you never know till you try, and every boat/paddler is different, so go get em with that cypress.
agree on boat length part of that.
at 5’ 1" a low volume boat is great. These boats tend to be shorter, but also more narrow. A smaller person will have less muscle mass to get a big kayak up near hull speed and so all that wetted surface drag figures in.
If you use a bent shaft at 0 you need to adjust your wrists to compensate for good rotation OR not adjust the wrists and use NO rotation. It’s EZier to show than explain.
Couple more comments
Re some of the stuff above - as above OPer has a Scorpio LV. Granted a full length boat, but one reasonably tuned for her size.
I've had her current paddle in hand and used it for a bit. It's not a bad paddle. But the swing weight and response of the Cyprus is better.
The question is same boat and different paddle - the reason the Cyprus seems to be everywhere is that I am not the only one who finds it increased my speed via a well-suited blade size and increased cadence (same boats). That happened in both my little Vela and my too-big-for-me Explorer LV.
It seems to me that cadence has everything to do with the swing weight and blade surface area/degree of dihedral of the paddle, so sure, i can see how going to a lighter paddle can help you go faster.
What people can get hung up on is they think that a high angle paddle with a bigger blade will make them faster. I don’t think that’s true.
I have lot’s to fix…
and i will starting on it with my new Werner Cyprus soon( smile:-) I am hoping that i can pull it all together.
I’ve been paddling a Cyprus 210cm straight standard shaft for three seasons and it is one fine paddle. Same blade size as the Camano, but very different in that it is foam core with no back rib (the Camano is ribbed). Thus a very different and much cleaner slice into the water.
As Celia said the Cyprus is noticeably lighter, and for me, very nice to brace with.
Recently got a great deal on another Cyprus - straight shaft, reg shaft but in 205cm.
It does make a difference. Putting the blade in closer to the boat on the catch gives me more power per stroke. I had my Suka out on Lake Superior this past weekend and we were flying, doing an intermediate/advanced paddle w. other women who were surely better paddlers than me.
I naturally spin the ferrule in my hands, and keep a light, open hand on the catch, so straight shaft is very comfy for me. Bent shaft adds weight and cost (all makers incl Werner). My feeling is if you need bent shaft or just prefer it, all good. In my case no.
Moderately high angle paddler
Sixty degrees right feather.
Ditch the drip rings - high angle paddlers in particular don’t need them. Your hands will be wet
with or w/out them.
I’m 5’3" and now 120 lbs of muscle and curves (LOL)
and agree that boats 17’ and up are generally a lot to push. Mine are 16’6" and 15’11" and both 20" wide, FWIW.
The CD by Ben Lowry is a great help. Taking lessons was even better - for me. Was an arm paddler and it took two seasons to get that bad habit worked out.
You can pretty much never have too much torso rotation.
Other tips from people who instructed me:
Sit up straight.
Do not tighten your abs.
Push w. the footpeg on the side you are putting the blade in the water (the catch).
Slide your hip slightly forward on the side you are pushing on the peg - encourages more twist, gives you
more power on the pegs.
Do not clock back further than hip - wastes time, wastes energy and actually creates a slight sweep.
Do not grip paddle tightly - open hand in a “hello” wave making an “OK” w. thumb and first finger. If your elbow, wrist, or forearm is feeling sore you are prolly gripping too tight. Relax…
Enjoy your Cyprus!