Since I paddle in NE Ohio in the winter, I thought it might be a good idea to dress a little smarter. I’ve been winter paddling for several years now, and have mainly been wearing several layers underneath my NRS semi-drytop jacket. I know it’s not really ideal if I happen to fall in. So…
I just tried out an NRS Ultra John wetsuit. After putting it on, I didn’t like it. Too tight and restrictive (although the sleeveless design is nice). I think I’m going to return it. That leaves a dry suit, which is probably better anyway for the very cold water, but I don’t like things to be tight around my neck. Plus, they are expensive and have to be maintained well. If they leak, they’re useless.
Is there anything else to consider? I paddle on the river or stay very close to shore if on the lake, so even if I couldn’t re-enter my boat, I would not be in the water long. What about a wetsuit vest (just to protect my core) under my semi dry-top and some other layers? I know it’s probably not ideal, but it’s better than nothing. Also, I know accidents do happen, but the odds of me dumping my boat are extremely small. In smooth water, I just don’t see how I could possibly dumpy my Scorpio. It’s extremely stable.
Although it varies with the person, exposed extremities like hands, arms, and legs, can become useless in as little as ten minutes with water in the 40s. So how long is not that long. Are you prepared to abandon your boat to try to reach shore quickly?
An excerpt from a story in the Washington Post:
"On March 6, 1968, when nine Marines set out across the Potomac near Quantico, Va., in a 25-foot “war canoe.” In the most notorious disaster in small-boating annals hereabouts, the Marines capsized 100 yards from shore after almost completing the crossing.
The water was relatively calm but still winter-cold at 36 degrees; the Marines wore sweat suits and no life preservers. All were strong swimmers, having trained two months as water survival fitness instructors. But nary a one made it to shore. They all died."
Some drysuits can be ordered with a neoprene neck gasket, which in not as watertight, but probably good enough for your situation.
Drysuit. Check out Kayak Academy. Huge selection of used, loaner and demo suits. All get hydro tested and new gaskets before selling. Excellent prices and many look new.
They have a neck reliever tube thingy that you can get also. Basically a small piece of tubing slightly larger than your neck. Put the latex neck gasket over and it helps keep the gasket off the neck and keeps you cooler when working hard. It’s easy enough to wiggle it around and get the gasket back on your neck when chance of going over goes up.
Or simply replace latex with neoprene gaskets. More comfortable and still does a good job of keeping water out.
Thanks, I would probably just bite the bullet and get a drysuit if it weren’t for having the feeling of something tight around my neck. Maybe neoprene would be OK. The John-style wetsuit feels great in the neck and arm area, but I didn’t like the feeling of being smooshed into the thing. It was a bit too big in the thighs, and bunched up in the abdomen area when sitting, which is maybe normal, but overall, didn’t feel very comfortable.
If I ever did dump, I’d probably try to get back in once, and if that failed, just get to shore ASAP since abandoning ship would be better than dying.
Reading a bit more, and it does sounds like some sort of dry suit would be the safest option. I’m leaning towards a semi-dry version due to the neoprene neck vs the latex gaskets in the full dry. Most people say the latex neck gaskets are uncomfortable. I’ve seen my buddy in his, and it looked very tight and restrictive. In my case, would a semi be good enough? If a little water leaks in, I can deal with some discomfort. My main goal is to avoid death. On top of that, based on my past record, the odds of me actually dumping on accident are likely under 1%.
The latex neck gaskets have rings molded into into them as guides to trim them down to comfortable fit. Though I hate anything tight around my neck I found when I started using a drysuit (Kokatat goretex with latex gaskets) that once I had it on for a few minutes what felt strangling at first subsided. As your body heat warms the latex it softens a bit. I had bought my first drysuit used for a good price ($1200 suit for $400 because the wrist and ankle gaskets were torn. Easy to replace them, which I did. The neck had already been slightly trimmed and was OK. When it began to show signs of failure (the trim job had been sloppy) I replaced it with a new one. I had to trim that down a little - the first and second rings. It was fine after that – but always felt a little snug when I first put it on.
But the advantages, even the pleasures, of a good drysuit are hard to explain. Having your body, from toes to neck, not wet and not at all cold when you are paddling or even submerged in the water is very liberating. Much less restrictive than full wet suits, Farmer Johns (in my case, a Farmer Jane) or any layered arrangement. I wear light stretch fleece underneath and the outfit is as comfy as pajamas – I love how I can just relax and not worry about being on or in the water, regardless of conditions.
I have had pretty good luck with lightly used drysuits. I only paid $400 each for both of the high end Kokatats I bought. First one served me for 12 years before the zipper blew out. I just picked up another used one, an Immersion Research, also in pristine condition, for $600.
If you get a Kokatat new, you can have them put a neoprene rather than latex gasket on any of the apertures. And you can swap out the latex one later if it really bothers you. But trimming it bit by bit until it is comfortable usually works. For trimming I bought a day-glo plastic traffic cone from Lowe’s to slip the gasket over, then use a sharp rotary fabric cutter from Joann Fabrics (looks like a pizza cutting wheel) to make a smooth clean cut around the gasket.
And if you do get a drysuit, get the full fabric booties. Having warm dry feet while paddling is another luxury.
Farmer Johns are actually not that great, the arm holes and open neck allow flushing of core heat pump system of heart and lungs with cold water. Wetsuits are actually very effective in cold water, they are tight but not that restrictive if you buy a quality wetsuit. With fleece underwear and a decent wet suit at leasdt 4/3, and a semi drytop you would probably be fine if you can get yourself to shallow water quickly. The greatest danger from capsizing is cold shock gasp reflex from immersion of your head, so even if you get a dry suit, get a neoprene cap or hood and practice tipping over in the gear you buy in shallow water, every time you go out.
I’ve moved back to the mountains of the west and currently using wet suit until everything freezes over, which will probably be soon as the night time temps are diving below 15 degrees regularly now. My biggest fear recently is goose hunters not cold water. As the guy says in the video below says the fun begins when it’s time to take off the wetsuit, but if you are prepared with a good thick blanket and dry warm clothing, and some hot tea in a thermos it’s not so bad. Run your car heater for several minutes before you strip down.
Here’s some folks using wet suits in the arctic and 6 mm neoprene though).
Good time to go dry suit shopping. NRS, Kokatat, Outdoorplay, others have got good sales now. I paddle close to shore on calm water during winter and opted for an NRS semi-dry with neoprene neck gasket and sewn in socks - not Gore Tex, but their proprietary fabric. Comfortable, reasonably priced when on deal and has lasted 6 seasons though only the last three saw regular use.
How is the wrist area on your NRS suit? I currently have their semi-dry top (which looks to be similar to the top portion of their Navigator drysuit) and the material right above the volcano wrist cuffs if fairly tight. If I put on a longsleeve sweater, there’s almost not enough room for the sleeves to go all the way down. Plus, the material does not stretch. I actually have very skinny wrists, so I was surprised the fit was so tight there. Higher up on the sleeves, it’s very baggy. It seems weird that these are designed to wear several layers underneath, yet the lower forearm area is so tight.
Another thing I just noticed on many of the NRS suits is the ankles have a “Gathered elastic” closure? Shouldn’t there be latex gaskets down there, too? How is elastic going to be watertight??
Don’t think I remember any limitation for sweaters and such above the wrist gasket. Gasket itself is quite tight and is sometimes tough for me to get my arthritic hands out. Price they are showing for the Navigator is about what I paid when they were closing out a model a few years back.
I just assumed they all had fabric socks but maybe I’m wrong about that.
Thanks! It looks like a lot of that Kokatat ones have integrated socks, but the other brands like NRS just have ankle closures. Here’s what they show on one of the sites. It seems off that they’d put gaskets on the wrists, but not the ankles. If I fell in, how is some cheap elastic going to keep water from just coming up the legs?
Ah, here we go, so this explains it. I knew I was missing something, haha. It looks like even the NRS suits have built-in socks. It was hard to tell from the pics, but I found this in a youtube video.
I ended up going with this NRS Nomad. Found a really good sale price from Olympic Outdoor Center in WA. Not bad! $717. Not bad! I was debating getting a hooded one like the Navigator, but it was quite a bit more, and TBH, I think I’ve used the hood on my current semi-dry top like once or twice.
I was looking really hard at the Kokatak Supernova, but I read too many bad things about the brand on reddit. Apparently, they used to be top tier, but lots of people were saying their customer service went downhill, and even their QC took a hit in the recent years. Didn’t want to risk it. My current NRS jacket has been wonderful, so hopefully the trend continues with the drysuit!
drysuit without a doubt. FB Marketplace, ebay, Amazon all have cheap options. Obviously the better grade stuff is more $$$. It took me a while to get use to the neck fit. I didn’t care for it at first and had to force myself to get use to it but honestly after the first few outings, I don’t really notice it anymore. better safe than sorry and it’ll only take 1 swim in frigid water to change your mind.
The great advantage of a Kokatat drysuit is their lifetime warranty for everything outside of normal wear. Gaskets are not covered as they consider those wearing out normal wear and tear as the material degrades over time.
I’ve had a drytop and drysuit replaced for just the cost of sending it in after authorization.
Dry suit is safest, but your saying you don’t like tight things around your neck seems like that would take away dry suit as an option.
But you have a semi-dry top - if that neo neck is comfortable enough, it sounds like a semi-dry suit could work. Does the neck on your dry top keep most of the water out? If not, then that likely wouldn’t work. Both of my suits are semi-dry, having recently converted my full dry suit over to a neoprene neck. But I have a large neck, and even the standard Kokatat semidry Hydrus suit with thin neoprene neck gasket stays pretty dry when I roll or rescue. But not everyone fills out the neck as well.
If you do go dry suit or semi-dry suit, strongly advised to get one with built in booties. And get a relief zip. And latex gaskets for wrists.
With the tight around neck issue, unless a semi-dry suit would be dry enough yet ok on your neck, I would lean toward some sort of wet suit. Find the right pieces and thickness that is comfortable for you. Anything is better than what you have been doing, so would lower the risks. If the Ultra John was uncomfortable in legs, switching to a shorty john may fix that. I prefer them over the full leg version when I am wearing a wet suit. Maybe add a full jacket on top of the shorty.
