Dry suit is best.
You can try adding dry pants to your paddle jacket. The difficulty is keeping the seal around the waist on the jacket. It is a versatile arrangement that I have used a lot. When days get warm, spring and fall you can take off the pants and just wear long under wear bottoms and shorts.
Wow, that’s a crazy good deal for a Gore Tex suit. Great investment.
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As far as I know the only alternative to a wetsuit is a dry suit.
I own some thick wetsuit garments and they are not great for comfort or mobility, but are better then not paddling at all.
When in my thick suit I am somewhat restricted in my movement, but I can’t justify the expense of a good dry suit because of where I live and paddle. Cold water paddling is what I deal with in October and sometimes a week or 2 in November and probably only 1/2 of that is water that would be really dangerous in it’s temp.
The reason is that our water here goes from nice (3MM suits) to cold (5 to 7MM wet suits) to ice in a just a few weeks and to gain 4-5 paddling trips a year in really cold water has not been worth the $1000-$2000 prices I see for the good dry suits. And in my case I have an additional problem. One that seems to be insurmountable by any method other then doubling the price. I have an XL or XXL chest and thigh measurement, but only a 28" long inseam and a short sleeve length. So 100% of the dry suits I have found so far are in generic sizing that will not fit me. Custom fitted suits cost 2X as much.
So, like most people I do not have unlimited funds for my hobbies. As money comes in (that is left over from living expenses) I have to make decisions as to what I’d be best to use it for and gaining just a few trips a year for the cost of a new kayak,well---- so far I have not bought a dry suit. Sometime in the future I may, but not yet.
I have more time in the spring to paddle cold water then I do in the fall/winter most years. The ice doesn’t melt off as fast as I wish it would, and after it does in the valley it’s still snow in the mountains, so the spring run-off is delayed a while We don’t fill up until it warms up at the tops. When it does the water comes down fast and cold, but after that rush the water will warm up. The ice to low cold water, – to deep somewhat cold water— to warming water is a cycle I deal with every spring, but the timing can vary from year to year.
But it is a very odd year the water doesn’t go from cool to very cold, to ice in just a few days or maybe 2 weeks in the late fall.
So my situation is not like most other kayakers. Seas get cold but stay liquid, so winter paddling is a real-world possibility for most kayakers. For me it’s not. From about 2 weeks ago until spring my water can be driven over with my truck. (ice fishermen love it) And because I live near a reservoir it’s ‘a given’ the water will be let out from the bottom of the dam all year to keep the Wind River and the Bighorn River flowing, so the water gets shallower and shallower every year and it’s at it’s lowest point in the early spring before the run-off starts. Less water is easier to freeze then more water. But less water also warms faster then more water. So depending on the spring temps the water in late March and April can vary in it’s temps. A lot!
But those that spend $1000 to $2000 for their paddling clothing do so because they can use it for many months each year. I can’t.
All the above said is to simply explain why I have chosen only wet suits so far. All my wetsuit garments combined cost less then 1 drysuit, and that drysuit is something I would not use for the vast majority of my time on the water. I have a farmer john in 3MM which gets the most use but also a set of wet suit pants in 3MM, one in 5-7 MM, a wet suit long sleeve top in 3-4 MM and a thick 7MM vest, as well as several layers of polypro long sleeves shirts and 2 long poly underwear bottoms, and all these can be switched around for the conditions I am going to be in . Add to this are 2 dry tops and a Tulik. So I have been fine so far in all water temps from the 80s down to the 50s. When the water here get around 54 degrees it’s usually only 4-7 days before the top is frozen over, so for cold (40s and 50s water) I have little time to use a dry suit even if I had one.
One friend of mine uses a 3-4 MM wet suit and has 2 sets of Marino Wool underwear which he layers under the wet suit. it seemed to me that would not be very effective, but he assures me it is, and he’s been out with me when I was in water of 58 degrees and he said he was just fine, even when we were very wet and he was doing some rolling practice. So some of this may just have to do with the individual person and he just doesn’t seem to get cold very quickly. Never has been shivering in his thin wet suit and wool, even at a time I was getting cold in my 5MM to 7mm suit.
A 3 mm wetsuit is fine in 58 degree water for most people, without under layers. Water repellent underlayers like fleece or wool do work under wet suits to stay warmer, but usually better to buy a thicker suit.
I don’t see how something without a neck seal will keep you dry. I took a change of clothes in a dry bag for decades in a similar situation before I got a dry suit. I still do that in the “shoulder season” when it’s cold but too warm for my personal sauna. If you get a suit make sure it has the crotch zipper.
I hope these bozos somehow find the sense to tune into this thread … assuming they made it home in their puffy coats (AKA cinder blocks when wet) and hunting boots.
Surface water temp: 39 deg F
Air temp: 18 deg F
Wind: NW 12-20 mph
Precip: Light to moderate snow coming off Lake Superior.
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Assuming you keep your immersion times short, you might like the 259 dollar and up semi drysuits, not as dry as a regular drysuit but still pretty good. Several of my friends use them as well. You can find them at watersportsoutlet.com. The crewsaver and typhoon are popular with the ww crowd I hang with.
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I sent in my 14 year old GFER to Kokatat when both zipper stops fell off at kayak camp in October (fortunately I had another drysuit with me). I prepaid to have the zipper replaced and the suit had not had any other problems or leaks – had not been used all that often until I started going to skills camps in 2017. But their repair service told me that they did not think it was worth the $200 I had prepaid to have the zip swapped out because they claimed they would be unable to test the water-tightness of the shell before replacing it. Apparently they presumed that a suit that old “must be leaky”. So they asked whether I wanted them to ship it back (at my expense, about $34) or scrap it and offer me a 25% off coupon code for a new one. I reluctantly told them to scrap it and now regret doing so. I know it didn’t leak because before the zipper failure I had been fully immersed in self rescue practice without getting a drop of moisture inside. I could have replaced the zipper myself (there are sources for watertight zippers). Too late now, I suppose.
I figured at my age (74) I don’t need to pay a premium for a lifetime warranty. Even a 25% discount doesn’t seem worth that initial expense. I paid $400 for the first GFER on the used market and got all those years out of it and had picked up a second one, almost identical except it had the fabric sox, for $350 last year. I’m on the cusp between Kokatat women’s M and L and the backup suit is an M which means it is a bit snug if I need to add extra warm layers so I’d like to have a larger one for those situations where that is needed.
As I was contemplating the dilemma (and the coupon) a local WW guide posted her barely used $1350 Immersion Research Aphrodite drysuit for sale for $650 and I bought that instead after trying it on. Much easier entry with this suit (hinged “clamshell” design) which also makes it possible to pop out of the top and tie it around your waist during on-shore stops.
Don’t know if the Kokatat coupon is transferable but it is good until November 2025.
I just picked up one of the typhoon models on clearance for my first entry into this area. My uses will be on small rivers in potentially cold times, but always near shore and with help nearby. I hope it is more protection than I need.
The NRS Nomad arrived today. Well, all I can say is, if people think neoprene necks are more comfy than latex, I can’t imagine how bad latex must feel. The suit seems to fit well overall. A little baggy, but that’s fine. Unfortunately, I don’t think I can deal with the neck. It’s tight as hell and I can’t even turn my head from side to side. I guess it could stretch out over time, but I don’t want to risk being unable to return it if it doesn’t.
I may have to just try a few different wetsuits to wear underneath my usual gear since I don’t feel like being choked all the time. I think I misspoke earlier. I actually have a splash jacket and not a semi-drytop. The jacket has a rubber-lined neck with velcro that can be tightened, but it’s nowhere near as tight as the drysuit.
I don’t even like to have the top button buttoned on dress shirts. I know anything that is waterproof is going to be tight around the neck, so that makes it difficult.
Maybe stretch it? Of course then you’d be have to keep the suit. But I think they will all start out tight.
How to Stretch a Latex Neck Gasket | NRS
It’s a neoprene gasket, though. Assuming they will stretch, too, but I can’t trim it ?
I had an NRS Splash Jacket that I have worn in winter over a wet suit on the Oregon Coast , and UK, I used it a lot in winter in southern California on the coldest days. I have also used it in the UK for hiking in winter down pours. With a 4/3 wetsuit is was comfortable down to the high 40s water temp, but at that time I had a lot more built in body insulation (Fat).
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Oops, wasn’t paying attention that article was for latex. I’d give NRS a call; they were really helpful when I had questions about sizing and cleaning info.
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I sent them a message. We’ll see what they say. Anyone know if the Kokatat neoprene necks are more comfy? I see they have a drawstring on them to cinch them tighter if needed, but are they a little looser if not cinched down?
Level Six’s Loki drysuit might be a better option. From reading the description, the tightness of the neoprene neck is adjustable: “How the closure system is tighten will determine how dry the neck and wrist seals will be when submerged in water.” And it’s on sale.
PFAS Free – Level Six CanadaI have worn 3/8" wetsuits when paddling to a dive location. The additional effort was the result of the neoprene pressing against my diaphragm. A dry suit avoids this problem but it provides no insulation without under garments, either expedition weight underwear or in very cold water a snowmobile suit.
In addition to a neoprene vest which if custom made could be thicker than what is sold off the rack. I also wear a kayak PFD as this further insulated my chest from the cold and it does not interfere with my paddling.
When the weather is warm it is worthwhile to practice getting back onto or into the kayak and getting familiar with the process. With my sit-on-top dive kayaks it was easiest to get on from the rear of the kayak and I would first clip on my dive vest and scuba tank to the side of the kayak. For a sit in kayak I approach from the side and use an inflatable pillow on one end of the paddle.
Does anyone actually paddle in a wetsuit with arms? I went to the local dive shop today and tried on a shorty wetsuit, a shorty john style and also a zip up, fleece-lined neoprene jacket with long sleeves. The only one I could really see myself paddling in was the shorty john (sleeveless). All the others were way too tight and restrictive on the arms. It seems like there’d be a lot of chaffing over time with any wetsuit with arms.
I did hear back from NRS, and they said that with my 16" neck, the XL Nomad suit would be better. Thing is, I wonder if the body part would be too baggy? I also wonder how much looser the neck gasket would really be. If I return the L Nomad, I’d have to pay shipping, then pay shipping for the XL, then if it didn’t work, have to pay to return it. Not sure I want to go down that path
In my opinion any wetsuit heavy enough for winter paddling in Ohio will be too restrictive for comfortable paddling. In addition, any wetsuit that does not provide adequate insulation for your arms and legs will leave you at risk of swim failure as you lose function in your extremities, which can happen in as little as 10 minutes in water temperatures in the mid 40s or below. I know this from my experience as a former oyster and salvage diver.
If you can’t find suitable cold water gear for kayaking in the winter then I would suggest finding another winter activity. Most people get used to drysuit neck gaskets in a relatively short time, in some cases trimming them for a looser fit.
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My impression from this thread is that you seem far too sensitive about fit and feel of clothing to enjoy cold water/cold weather paddling safely. The desire to and enjoyment of paddling and lack of strong sensitivity to clothing means I put on skin tight wetsuits with full sleeves and snug necks and I forget I’m wearing them until I’m taking them off. Same with my drysuit and snug gaskets. I wear the most flexible O’Neil and Rip Curl wetsuits, and it’s much nicer than the less flexible stuff. But it has to be skin tight everywhere to be effective.
I know others who are unwilling to wear proper cold water protection to go paddling. It’s a hurdle too high for them, no matter how strange it seems to someone like me. A person’s mind goes where it goes and focuses where it focuses. The simple physical reality is the same for everyone. I have the same struggle putting it on compared to my favorite trousers, feel the same pressures/restrictions, but my mind just moves on to the next thing and it slips from my consciousness. I don’t think it has much to do with any mental discipline for me. If I had to employ more mental discipline in an attempt to ignore it, that would be a new equation to consider. If a mind gets laser focused on it, then that’s as far as their experience will probably go.
Just remember, cold water doesn’t care about your comfort or the material. If it doesn’t form a seal, if water can seep in, it isn’t a drysuit, no matter the expense or intentions.
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