Well, it’s all a calculated risk. The chance of me dumping is near zero. The fact is, people paddled in cold water before drysuits. People paddle with just a dry top and dry bottoms. I can’t imagine trying to paddle in a thick, fullbody-wetsuit. I hardly think that not wanting to wear a dry suit neck gasket that nearly strangles me, and barely lets me turn my head, is being overly sensitive.
If the best I can do is a thin, short wetsuit that covers my core, then layers over that, then the splash jacket, I think that’s going to offer enough insurance and enable me to either immediately get back in the boat, or just get to shore which we stay very close to. Yeah, it’s not going to fun or comfortable, but it’s not like I’d be out there naked.
The funny thing is, most of the paddlers in our area that have fancy, expensive dry suits are never out there paddling. Even in the summer, we hardly ever see them. They’ve taken training classes, rolling classes, whatever. Yet, they never paddle. Meanwhile, me and my buddies are out there doing 1000+ mile a year.
Risk assessment has 2 key components: probability & consequence. You may believe, and correctly so, that the probability of your dunking is low. However, the consequence of a lethal outcome in such an event is higher than you recognize. Low probability/high consequence risks need to be mitigated aggressively. And yes, people did paddle in cold weather/on cold water without drysuits. They often died if they immersed, which remains true today. Worth considering–an avoidable death usually has major & lasting impacts on people–family & friends–other than the deceased.
Why wear seatbelts? After all, back in the 1950s, people drove cars that didn’t even have seatbelts. Never mind the fact that they died or were severely injured in wrecks at a much higher frequency than is the case today. All that matters - at least if I choose to believe it - is that those people drove without seatbelts.
One of your comments, rather than refuting the remarks of ‘Cape Fear’ above as you intended, perfectly illustrated the point he was making. You said “I hardly think that not wanting to wear a dry suit neck gasket that nearly strangles me, and barely lets me turn my head, is being overly sensitive.” To say that it “nearly strangles” you is just your chosen way of describing the situation, but it is not a truthful statement. I have no doubt that an actual medically-based evaluation of the situation would show that you are not even remotely close to being strangled. As has been mentioned, latex gaskets are designed to allow trimming to fit larger neck sizes (just take it easy in deciding how much to trim. A step-wise process of trimming is safer than making a guess at what maximum amount you can trim and then discovering that it’s too loose).
I have a Kokatat dry suit with a latex neck gasket which I’ve never had any complaints about. I expect the gasket to be snug and so that’s the end of the issue for me and I don’t think about it. I do less cold-weather boating than I used to, but in any case, I’ve used that dry suit far more for rowing than for paddling, and when rowing, twisting my body and neck to the maximum degree possible is something that’s constantly happening (turning to see that the path ahead of me is clear of obstacles or that I’m aimed in the right direction, such as within a curving river channel), and that means that there are probably hundreds of full twists of my neck on every trip. I’m far more flexible than most people and I expect that I am twisting farther than you ever could, let alone farther than you ever actually need to when you are paddling while facing forward. I agree with ‘Cape Fear’ that comfort is all about perception and expectations.
Still, I am thinking of one additional option you might be able to find. I once had a military-surplus drysuit of a style worn by helicopter crews. It had something called a “bellows gasket” at the neck. It was latex and it was as tight as it needed to be at the contact surface, but instead of being in the shape of a truncated cone like a normal neck gasket, it was in the form of an oversize tube with a taper at one end. The result was that the whole throat section was like a balloon. That gasket allowed very free-feeling twisting of one’s neck. The trade-off on that particular suit was that it had a horizontal entry zipper that was right across the chest at armpit height and it had a thin strip of spring steel built into the fabric backing of the zipper to keep it rigid enough for easier operation of the slider. Thus, the zipper ends poked outward and interfered a lot with arm movements. But hey, that neck gasket sure was comfortable! Maybe you can find a drysuit that’s compatible with paddling motions, but which has a bellows gasket, or with that style as an option.
Yeah, this is true but the consequence is going to be different depending on certain factors. Falling in wearing shorts and a t-shirt is going to present a lot bigger of a problem than falling in wearing a minimal wetsuit, multiple underlayers and waterproof outerwear. I’m not saying a dry suit isn’t going to provide the most optimal protection, but falling in without one is not instant death.
If I can still get the sale price, I may try to exchange the L Nomad for the XL. NRS told me that with my 16" neck, the XL would be the proper size suit. Going by their size charts, all my other measurements put me in the L range, but I guess since they make them, they would know. I wonder how much wider the neck gasket really is on the XL? I have to pay to send back the L suit, but I guess it’s a small cost if the XL really does fit better. If that still doesn’t feel good, I’ll just have to figure out something else. If the temps stay too cold here in NE Ohio, the water is gonna freeze anyway then I’m done paddling regardless.
I can’t think of any reason you could not trim a little off the neoprene neck gasket. Neoprene doesn’t unravel. I had a full surf 3/4 wetsuit with sleeves that were too long so I shoved a wine bottle down the sleeves to hold the material taut and carefully cut about 2" off with a sharp razor blade (when trimming any stretch gasket you have to make a clean cut or any ragged areas will start to tear.)
Before you try that you might want to try powdering your neck with cornstarch baby powder and trying the suit on again. If you are having trouble turning your head maybe it is binding on your skin. But I admit I am puzzled by your description of not being able to turn your head. There is usually plenty of loose material in the upper area of a properly fitting dry suit to allow easy movement of the shoulders and head. This suggests to me that the L size may be too small for you – do you have a long torso for your height?
Something else to consider–instead of estimating how such a situation might go, test your outfit. Get a friend to go with you, proceed to one of your usual paddling venues, put on the gear you’d use, and in about 2-3 feet depth of water, sit or squat down for 4 to 5 minutes. See how it goes, while your buddy waits close by but on shore to assist if needed.
I think what is happening is, the lining of the neoprene neck gasket is a bit sticky. Plus, it’s so tight that when I turn my head, my skin sticks to the gasket. I can turn my head, but the material doesn’t slide over my skin. Instead, it pulls on my neck as I rotate.
As for my torso, I don’t think it’s unusually long. If anything, I have long legs. I’m a touch shy of 6’.
Looking at NRS’ sizing chart, there isn’t a big difference between an L and XL. Worst case is that the XL will be a big more baggy, which is okay because the wrist gaskets keep the sleeve in the right spot and the belt will keep the suit at your waist. Also the extra bagginess might be good for allowing extra room for heavier fleeces underneath.
Regarding the neck, I can understand what you mean about the tight feeling. A friend with a large neck felt like he was being choked, it took a lot of trimming of the latex neck seal to get it to a point that it felt comfortable. For myself, it took a couple outing with my drysuit before the latex neck gasket stretched a bit to make it feel comfortable. Its still a tight seal, just ‘comfortable’.
I’m guessing that when it comes to the NRS style of neoprene neck gasket that it can’t get trimmed, it must be stretchier than a latex gasket. Other manufacture’s neoprene neck gasket is adjustable, which may be a better option. I believe Kokatat, Level 6 and Mustang all use an adjustable type of neoprene neck gasket.
As others have said, the risk of going into the freezing cold water may be low, but the consequence of death is high. For myself, I’m not going out paddling without my drysuit once that water temp dips below 65 F.
I used to use a long john wetsuit with a polypropelene top and a paddling jacket. I was paddling k-1, C-1 and C-2 into winter and again in spring when the ice broke up. the longjohn provide core warmth without any shoulder restriction. I didn’t fall over very often but didn’t have any problems when I did. I will suggest some sort of neoprene beanie or balaclava as extremely cold water can give you a headache
I got the XL today. Neck is still tight, but feels more reasonable. I think if it stretched a bit over time, it’d be fine. However, it seems really big in the body. I’d rather have it a little baggy, but this might be too much. As you can see in the pics, the waist sits way too low, like at the middle of my butt. In the second pic, I pulled the pants up so the waist on the suit matches my actual waist. Ugh. Not sure what to do here…
Thanks! I wonder if it’d be worth trying a Kokatat suit. I’ve read bad things about their customer service lately (especially on read). Not sure how true it all is. Their suits do have that cinch on the neck, so I’m wondering if it’d be a better fit if I don’t cinch it as tight?
Any chance you could custom order a smaller size drysuit with the XL neck gasket. I know Kokatat accepts custom orders, but they only have small and large neck gaskets.
People have put NRS gaskets on Kokatat drysuits. Many drysuit gaskets are universal fit to the suit and the size only varies where they go around the neck or wrist.
I was thinking of reaching out to NRS to ask them about that. First, I’m going to try the Kokatat Supernova suit to see how that feels. It was quite a bit more than the sale price on the NRS Nomad, but if it fits and feels good, guess it’s worth it. I like the NRS suit, but that XL is just way too big for me.
Drysuits are for sitting and swimming and typically look pretty floppy when standing on land. How does it fit sitting? The back of your body lengthens when you are sitting with legs extended. And you want some looseness in the upper torso as well, so there is no binding or chafing when paddling or doing layback rolls. Drysuit fit isn’t for a fashion show – purely function. i see nothing wrong with that fit on you.
Doesn’t it have a belt to cinch it at your waist if needed? My NRS is somewhat long and sloppy but I figured that’s the nature of the beast and haven’t seen a downside.
I get that, but this thing was massively big. Because I tried on the L before this, I could tell this just had way too much material. I don’t care if I look like a goofball in it, but when the crotch was almost sagging to my knees, it was laughable. Cinching the waist belt helped somewhat, but wasn’t ideal.
The good news is, the Supernova (in Goretex) that I ordered off Amazon came today. Holy moly, what a difference! The neck is MUCH more comfortable. It’s night and day. The material actually feels a bit softer and smoother, too. Built-in socks seem great. The socks on the NRS were ridiculously oversized, like several inches too large. I think I finally found my drysuit! I think the sleeves are just slightly long, but they cinch up, so no biggie. I’d rather have it be a little too big than a little too small. Only complaint is it was $1350 with tax vs 700-something for the NRS Nomad.
Seems like a really high-quality suit, and most importantly, it feels good to wear. After trying on the NRS drysuit, and several styles of wet suits, this is by far the most comfortable.
