I’m not a novice paddler (ACA L4 instructor). But in a sense I feel like it over this. I purchased a Lendal Cadence X bent shaft paddle. It’s nice but; I’m having an issue using it.
I feel and teach to use the lightest grip on the shaft possible without dropping the paddle. Doing that, what I’m finding with this paddle is that the blade seemingly is top heavy or perhaps the shaft doesn’t fit my hands. I find that after stroking on one side, the entire paddle wants to rotate the top edge of the blade forward toward the bow of the boat. Naturally this leaves the blade in a bad position for the next stroke. Every time. It’s beginning to make me nuts. Werner paddles don’t exhibit this tendency at all. I just don’t get what’s happening. Is it me; the paddle? Suggestions please.
As I’m not being allowed to email Lendal to ask them, if aLendsl rep should see this, please respond.
Thanks!
Jyak gave me a Warner Kalliste 240 CM paddle and I have used it in 3 kayaks. My Chatham17, my Perceptions Sea Lion Shadow and my Old Town Loon 106. It’s becoming a favorite of my in the Sea Lion and It’s also excellent in the Loon, but in the chatham17 I can’t get it to stop fluttering back and forth in a twisting motion along the axis of the shaft.
The difference between the 3 kayaks is that 2 have my butt at or slightly above the water level and the Chatham17 seats me a few inches below the water level. In the Chatham the flutter is there, and the more power I apply, the worse that flutter gets.
What eliminates it for me is a very high angle stroke so I am stabbing the blades into the water at the tips instead of cutting them in, but it’s supposed to be a low angle paddle. If I do a very high angle catch I get no flutter, but I also can’t maintain that stroke for hours on end without pain in the shoulder joints. If I do that high angle catch I can’t go 5-10 hours (done this on several trips now) unless I only paddle at low cadence so the stress is low on me, but of course that also means the speed is fairly low too.
So why do I mention all this?
Well I am quite ignorant of many things related to techniques, and also about paddles and their design, but I thought maybe my experience with the Warner Kalliste and the fact that the hight of the boat’s hull bottom seems to be making some difference might give you something to look at that you may not have looked at before.
John thinks the higher angle of attack I need to paddle in the Chatham is not related to the problem, and I have to admit, he knows more then I do (in fact a lot of people know more then I do when it comes to these things)
But the facts are that I love it in the Sea Lion and in the Loon 106 but can’t seem to get it to stop fighting me in the Chatham. That’s not a theory, but a fact. (so far anyway)
What I don’t know is WHY!
John sent me a link and made me aware of your post, so maybe my problem will shed some light on your problem. If you think of anything that could help, please let me know.
If not…well… it cost you nothing to read this post.
This has me confused. What would you ask the rep? {The paddle doesn’t feel or act like a Werner paddle???}
I’m not familiar enough with any of the newer Werner’s or Lendal’s since I have been focusing on Greenland Paddles for over 20 years…But I would assume that the paddle you bought exhibits characteristics that are in line with the intended design parameters for a certain paddling segment. I would play with the paddle for awhile and try to see.
I doubt that a rep will be able to tell you what you are doing different than it was designed for.
Paddledog, if I don’t poke it into the water at it’s ends it starts the flutter and nothing I can do in the stroke can stop it. So that’s what I was talking about : The very high angle catch keep it from starting. If it starts I can’t stop it until I simply quit the rotation and cease all power to it.
So when you say pulling too fast does it mean overpowering the blade?
It has to be me, but why does it only do it when I am in a kayak that sits very low in the water?
If I am in my Sea Lion or the Rec kayak it’s fine and works very well. In my Chatham 17 I can’t get it to stop fluttering unless I take it very easy on every stroke.
IMO bent shafts are not all the same. I have never noticed the fact that the shaft is bent w my H2O paddle. However they tweaked the thing, it fits me perfectly.
Werner bent shafts not as natural a fit, but I could have adapted if I wante3d to give it more time. Wasn’t way off.
Lendal bent shafts, at least the earlier ones I tried, never paddled right for me. Like not even close.
I have no idea why eqach of these felt so different. But they did.
So i am using a leandel cadence paddle. There are so many variables, you can adjust the length and feather, then there is your own paddle style from low to high angle paddling and your paddling rate, and individual cadence and release/recovery point. I have a straight shaft and bought that particular model because the blade shape is similar to whitewater paddles i own (size and shape and curveature). I wanted something predictable that had some familiarity. I cant say ive noticed flutter but im a bit of a hack, meaning i just try stuff out and see what works. The bent shaft could change the mechanics. I like the changing shaft feel because it helps me keep my hands where they need to be. Let us know how it goes with contacting leandel. Its ok to not like something, it’s just expensive to do so.
Haven’t been able to mail Lendal as their contact page tell me I don’t have the ability to view this resource. Beats me as to why I’d get this but……
The Werner I’ve used: both the Cyprus and Ikelos. Straight and bent shaft. The issue isn’t behavior of the paddle in the water, it’s the apparent balance of the blade out of the water, between strokes and even just being held in my hands.
Hey Daniel;
The problem I’m seeing isn’t flutter or screwy behavior in the water, it’s the apparent balance of the paddle OUT of the water. With the blade seeming to be top heavy (seems that way is it wants to rotate forward), the issue is to keep having to regrip the paddle every couple of strokes.
It would seem others aren’t having the issue so I’m wondering what I’m doing or not doing that is allowing the problem.
So you inspired me to actually look at my paddle, actually is a cadence x, but straight shaft. Have you messed with feather angle at all? Also noticed on leandels page that you have 1 year to return paddle if not satisfied. I know this is not of much help. I have a feeling you are much more performance oriented than myself. It is just so much lighter and adjustable than my other paddles that i own.
Yes, the Loon106 has the most, 10.5 feet long and 34" wide.
the Sea lion is in the middle at 16.5 feet long and 24" wide.
But the Chatham17 has the least. 17 feet 3" long and 21.5" wide.
The Chatham has show it’s my fastest kayak, yet it’s the one that gives me the problem with the Kalliste. That’s the reason I am thinking it’s about the angel at the catch. If I purposely go to a high angle stroke the problem vanishes, but it’s specifically marketed as a low angle paddle.
Sounds like you have carried the loose grip too far. You are creating a paddle presentation problem … need to become part of the matrix. Forget trying to contact Lendal and work on your grip. Alternate loose and control, not just totally all loose. Even the wind will mess with a totally loose paddle.
This is one reason I love GL paddles. You hold the base of the blades on GL paddles, not just the shaft (loom). So a relaxed grip is still good for rough water and wind and I have never felt any need to grip hard using GL paddles even in very stiff winds and very rough chop.
I am working backwards from what many if not most kayakers do so it seems.
I started trying GL and Aleut paddles in the first 4 months of kayaking and have used them almost exclusively until just a few months ago, where I am not trying to learn the best ways to use 2 Euro type paddles One is the Warner Kalliste mentioned above and the other is an Aqua Bound Hybrid Eagle Ray. The shafts felt odd to me, being nearly round and the fact that I didn’t have to stroke low and deep enough to touch water with my hands is also new to me.
