Which Epic is right for me?

I’ve been paddling for 8 years or so now and just a month ago decided to get my girlfriend into it. We bought her a preowned Perception Sonoma 13.5 which turned out to be a bit too narrow and tippy for her so she has kind of taken over my Necky Alsek which I do love. The Sonoma inspired zero confidence for me on open water so I decided maybe it’s time to cut the losses on the boat and get something new for myself and gift her the Alsek she seems to like.

IN SHORT: I am deciding between an EPIC 14x, V5 or V5 performance. What I want is a boat that has the stability to instill some confidence in open water as well as enough storage for light, day touring. The 14x seems fit but it’s by far the most expensive. Ik the V5s (surfskis) aren’t exactly touring boats but the 10gallon hatch may be enough for me and the ease of self-rescue for a sit-on-top is super enticing. I struggle and can barely manage my 49lbs Alsek alone, but is doubling the cost for the lightweight V5 really worth it? Does the hybrid V5 have any other benefits other then lightweight?

I realize I have rambled a bunch, thank you in advance to anyone willing to read and help sort my brain out.

This is enough of a jump in costs that I wouldn’t think about buying one without getting butt time in it. Are there any dealers near you? Or can you make a weekend out of a trip to see one?

I do have a nearby dealer I have gotten in touch with and plan to take a look at each of them this weekend. At first the 14x seemed expensive but the perfect choice. Lightweight, stable, great tourer. But the plastic V5 carries similar dimensions and is less then half the cost; but NOW I’m veering for the hybrid build V5 for the super light weight. The simplicity of self-rescue between the sit-on-top V5 as opposed to the practicality of the 14x I feel is the true debate.

I’ve always had open boats - canoes and surfskis. I paddle a much skinnier ski than the v5 (a Fenn swordfish), but love the basic SS design for their inherent simplicity of self recovery. I go out in big messy stuff as often as possible and fall in regularly. Im paddling away less than 30 seconds later and dont worry about what happens when I fall in.

Personally, I vote surfski if you think you will ever fall in. They’re such a safe platform for open water and very confidence inspiring when things get bad. But it wont carry as much, so you’re gear-limited. but for open water paddling in questionable conditions, I’ll take a Ski over a Sit In any day.

a sub 35lb boat is a joy. If you can afford the lighter layup, do it. The conventional wisdom is buy the lightest layup you can afford or will survive the intended waters (i.e. rock/tree/ground/shore/reef/roof rack impacts if applicable)

Last thought, if you thought if you were cool in the 22.25" wide perception, the V7 might be worth considering as well. If you can test paddle the V5 and V7, id try out both to see how they feel

@MCImes said:
I’ve always had open boats - canoes and surfskis. I paddle a much skinnier ski than the v5 (a Fenn swordfish), but love the basic SS design for their inherent simplicity of self recovery. I go out in big messy stuff as often as possible and fall in regularly. Im paddling away less than 30 seconds later and dont worry about what happens when I fall in.

Personally, I vote surfski if you think you will ever fall in. They’re such a safe platform for open water and very confidence inspiring when things get bad. But it wont carry as much, so you’re gear-limited. but for open water paddling in questionable conditions, I’ll take a Ski over a Sit In any day.

a sub 35lb boat is a joy. If you can afford the lighter layup, do it. The conventional wisdom is buy the lightest layup you can afford or will survive the intended waters (i.e. rock/tree/ground/shore/reef/roof rack impacts if applicable)

Last thought, if you thought if you were cool in the 22.25" wide perception, the V7 might be worth considering as well. If you can test paddle the V5 and V7, id try out both to see how they feel

I know someone thinking about selling her V7.

How big are you?

I’m 5’6” and 165 lbs and find the Sonoma 13’5 to be a hoot.

My Current Designs Vision 130 is more stable feeling and still efficient and doesn’t care what direction the wind is coming from.

I don’t paddle big conditions, just windy sometimes.

My Epic 16X carbon will handle probably most conditions that you might throw at it, but requires more effort at moderate cruising speed than the Sonoma 13.5 or Vision 130.

My wife really enjoys her Epic V6.

All three above boats paddle really well with a short bent shaft Zaveral canoe paddle, as well.

I haven’t had the opportunity to paddle the shorter Epics.

Thank you for the input all, it’s helped me out a lot. Like I said, I’ve been paddling now for the better half of a decade but still consider myself a beginner of sorts because I don’t feel like my skills have progressed much at all over this time and never even practiced self-rescue in any of the sit-ins I’ve owned (never paddled a sit-on-top before). Is easy self-rescue even a concern for you more seasoned guys when deciding on a new boat? Is that just part of the debate of sit-in vs sit-on-top?

Also, anything I should know about the durability of hybrid construction kayaks? I’ve read they are a bit more delicate then the plastics. Does this mean no dragging on the sand? Avoid bumping onto river banks ?

I’ve been paddling since the mid 90s and have never practiced self rescues. Probably should have. I focus on staying in the boat.

As for plastic vs composite - plastic will tolerate a lot of abuse against rocks, beaches, sand, parking lots, kids, logs etc. A plastic boat is pretty hard to destroy.

Epic and most light weight layups use a Composite Sandwich structure (which means a layer of cloth on each side of a core material like foam or composite honeycomb) .
Sandwich layups are rather prone to puncture against sharp things, and need to be babied. The heavier layups (like Epic Performance) will take some moderate abuse, but nothing near what plastic will take. Moderate meaning light bumps against things, but no hard impacts and nothing sharp. Lightweight layups (like Epic Ultra) need to be babied and you should basically never run them into anything, rocks, logs, shore, parking lot, roof rack, etc. There is a pretty good chance you will puncture the hull if you run an Epic Ultra up on the rocks. A bump wont kill it, but I would vertianly take care to avoid hitting anything in my control.

As for rescue, some do, some dont. Personally I am in love with waves. the biggest wave I can find (usually). This means I swam early and often in my paddling career, and still do all the time. How much you value safety or practice rescue depends on your intended conditions, overall skill, and tolerance for risk. Technically everyone should practice deep water rescue semi regularly, because if you spend enough time on the water eventually you’ll be in it unexpectedly. You’re in much better shape if you have a recovery plan before you need it.

I paddle surfski because I like open ocean wave riding. Surfskis are specifically designed for this and consequently they are SOT style. A competent paddler could be every bit as safe in big conditions in a Sit In kayak(SinK) but I would contend they would have to be more skilled to achieve the same safety margin as a SOT because a SinK requires a roll or wet exit/reentry to recover. A SOT you just climb back on.

Most people prefer SOT for warmer weather and safety margin. Many people prefer SinK’s for colder weather or long term comfort (there is no back support on a Ski unlike a SinK seat with back band).

Basically, safety is one benefit to SOT boats, but one could contend there are tradeoffs to that (colder, wetter, no back support, inability to roll, limited gear storage). So there is no right answer here, its just what you prefer or which tradeoffs drive your decision.

You won’t need as much storage space on a surfski because you’ll have less need for safety gear. So a little storage space will go a long way. Have a look at the Pyranha Octane. You’ll have access to front and back storage.

http://www.surfskinews.com/review-blog/2016/9/10/review-pyranha-octanethink-nitro-chris-hipgrave

Is there a reason for limiting yourself to Epic? There are many other options, Current Designs, for example, has several models in the same general category as the 14x. The same can be said for surfskis. Used may also be an option.

@semdoug said:
Is there a reason for limiting yourself to Epic? There are many other options, Current Designs, for example, has several models in the same general category as the 14x. The same can be said for surfskis. Used may also be an option.

That is a good point. I’ve been zeroing in on Epic because they seem to have an edge when it comes to weight. I’d also be lying if I didn’t admit I think they look more beautiful then anything else I’ve seen. Thanks to some of the responses here I think I am settling on the V5 (or perhaps a similar surfski from another brand if I see something nice).

This is entirely jumping subject a bit, but any opinions on paddles? Is carbon fiber really necessary? Is purchasing the Epic brand paddles mostly just paying for the name?

CF paddles are definitely worth it in the long run but now you’ve opened a new can of worms which has been explored ad nauseum here.
Euro, GP, Wing ? Adjustable length or not? Optimum length for you? Blade shape , wide or not?
It’s all fun.

@string said:
CF paddles are definitely worth it in the long run but now you’ve opened a new can of worms which has been explored ad nauseum here.
Euro, GP, Wing ? Adjustable length or not? Optimum length for you? Blade shape , wide or not?
It’s all fun.

PS. Stellar makes beautiful skis

@string said:
CF paddles are definitely worth it in the long run but now you’ve opened a new can of worms which has been explored ad nauseum here.
Euro, GP, Wing ? Adjustable length or not? Optimum length for you? Blade shape , wide or not?
It’s all fun.

I was looking at the relaxed touring paddle from Epic. 218 would be a good length; evidently mid wing is the choice for a good jack-of-all trades option? I can’t imagine paying $500 for something from Epic can be that much better then other full carbon options that are available for $300 or even less. Also I will check out to see what boats from Stellar my local dealer has.

Relaxed touring and any wing sounds like a disconnect. As I understand it, wings are made for fast . I had a wing, but didn’t like it and went back to a more joint friendly paddle, a Wind Swift. It is sort of like a cross between a GP and a Euro .
The Stellar S18S was the most beautiful boat I’ve ever owned. Mine was yellow.

If you’re talking about plastic ski’s, they’re all the same build wise. There may be subtle differences but nothing that makes one stand above the crowd. Nelo, Think, Epic, and a few others all make plastic skis that you may consider. The Nelo 510 is worth a look.

As for a paddle, I would check out AliExpress.com. You can get a full carbon paddle with any blade shape (Wing, Euro, GP, Hybrid) for less than $200 shipped and are 96% as good as the brand names that cost 2.5x more. Ski’s “should” be paddled with a wing blade, but like string says there is no reason you couldnt use a euro or GP.

One note on paddles - I strongly prefer the smaller blades, like the the small-med wing size or even smaller. Unless you are quite fit or sprinting, a larger blade will only wear you out faster and does not benefit most people. A med wing is still a reasonable size too.

I’m not neccesarily seeking out speed, just for more or less casual paddling an the occasional overnight (why I figured the touring paddle would be more fit). I suppose speed never hurts. Would a mid wing be a be a better fit with a chunky, entry-level surfski? Also, thank you for the Ali Express recommendation, I will be sure to check it out.

I don’t think you will find a true entry level ski to be chunky at all.

@string said:
I don’t think you will find a true entry level ski to be chunky at all.

I mean, relative to high-end race skis like the V14 that’s under 17" wide, the v5’s 23.5" starts sounding a bit chunky for a surfski, does it not?